"I think you are foolish to play blackjack full-time...

"even for a year" - Stanford Wong, Blackjack Secrets, p.186 (1993 ed.)
I quoted this here, just to try to inject some reality into the discussions about joining teams, quitting your job to play to play BJ. etc. Some of the major problems SW mentions in that fine text are: (1) Boredom!
(2) Financial risk. (3) Cutting yourself off from the (real) world.

Later on SW states "Do not quit your job". His reasoning goes as follows: A normal, healthy individual shows reasonable emotional responses to the situations of everyday life. "IF YOU ARE THIS SORT OF NORMAL, HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL, YOU WILL NEVER MAKE IT AS A PROFESSIONAL BLACKJACK PLAYER" (my caps). Of course, there are other opinions from respected players that differ from this. I can't think of any offhand, except for DD' and Tommy Hyland. Even Ian Anderson has a full-time job (he says).

I don't know if "Blackjack Secrets" is still available or not, but personally I have found this book to be an invaluable source of info for keeping what is essentially just another game of cards in perspective. It "gets your mind right" (from the warden in Cool Hand Luke).

AB

Stanford is right, the lifestyle of a full time pro runs counter to what 97% of us would consider to be a decent life. "Side occupation" (semi-pro), however, is beautiful!... it lets you build the game into your life in a way that can optimize it.

Some things like less over-exposure are obvious but others aren't. For example, playing BJ in a distant geographic area as part of several reasons for being there rather than the single reason of BJ.. those other reasons can break up the monotony and usually offer up professional reasons for writing off trip expenses, etc.

Another is that a losing streak can compel one to play an intensive itinerary to make it up.. forsaking family, friends, etc. in the process. If you aren't dependent on it, it doesn't fly out of perspective.

A life of round-the-clock BJ is no life at all.

Spok

If your day job pays well then of course do not quit.but if you have a job that you hate and are not happy in the rat race then look to something else.

I know people in Vegas and elsewhere who live quite comfortably playing the coupons,promos,tournys,online casinos in a smart way.It is not that hard,

Then there are the guys who play pool,darts,backgammon and it pays the rent.

It depends on what you mean by professional.some people think profeesional BJ players are guys who make 6 to 7 figures a year,not so.most guys and gals are out there just paying the rent and food,gettin by on their skill,they dont want to get up every day at 9 and finish at 5.They do what they want and thats it.

also realise that SW and even Don Shlesinger have never learned to ace or shuffle track,why?Because they dont need to!They have top jobs already,thats why the guys who know most about advantage play are the guys who who will never hear about,the invisible.Next time you are in a casino look at that ploppy next to you he could be a pro you will never know!

so if you think of going pro,1st.Be single,you cant risk your familys future on the turn of a card.2nd.Have a good bankroll at least 30,000$.3rd have low expenses,such as rent,car,etc.

4th.make sure you are an excellent counter with extreme discipline.do the hit and run style and the world is your oyster

I don't know if "Blackjack Secrets" is still available ...

Yes, it is.

Click onto Online Catalog near the upper left hand corner of this website.

Good holiday gift.

It just isn't that difficult to "go pro" and there are more out there than people think, but as you said they are earning a working man's wage. The mechanics of counting cards, learing vp strategy, scouting promos, couponing, wonging slots can be learned by anyone of average or below IQ. Your point 4 is most important, disipline! That is the key from my first hand observation of folks who are living this "pro"lifestyle. Drugs or the urge to gamble/and or chase todays losses don't mix well in the profession. I would say Pro. Gambler would rank as one the highest stress level jobs, and extreme mental toughness is needed.

Your point about not wanting the 9-5 is key. I don't think the big goal of many of these pros is the money, many live vans or travel trailers, it's not glamorous. What I become bored with after a few days, they breathe 24/7/365. I does take a special breed. This year I have made a lot of plane trips, drove many miles to casinos, probably put in 1000 hours in play. Yes the money is there, but I would only do it full time if I was forced into it.

if your day job is wonderfull, why quit? But I wouldn't call it foolish to play full-time.

"so if you think of going pro... Have a good bankroll at least 30,000$."

$30k is not a good BR for pro play. Nowhere even close to enough.

Regards,
SG

I don't often disagree with SG, but I do think I should comment on:

$30k is not a good BR for pro play. Nowhere even close to enough.

I do agree that if you plan to be a solo card-counter for your full-time job, then 30K is not even close.

But there are other forms of play that give much higher SCOREs than card-simply card-counting. I can't say that 30K isn't enough for those players.

OddBall's unique and colorful writing style sometimes obscures his point, but I think he was talking about more advanced techniques here.

The best quote I got from a full-time gambler is, "If the reasons for going pro aren't obvious to you, then you shouldn't."

This, of course, is assuming that you at least have the skills to even consider it.

Plover

some people going full time don`t understand the most lucrative advantage plays.
Those who have skills in multiple fields tend to put cardcounting on the back burner because there are far easier ways of making money with a fraction of the risk.

D.

If you are smart enough to do it, you should be smart enough not to.

I think Dreamer was making the point that if you are going to go full-time, you should really be an advantage player instead of just being a plain ol' card counter. As a recreational player, you can do whatever you want. If you're going play full-time, you'd better be in the former and not just the latter group. If you don't know the difference, you'd better not go full-time.

Plover

PS - When I say "you" I don't necessarily mean you Harvey.

i havent worked in 14 months.the biggest problem with pro gambling is your health.the pounds will start to add up quickly.the stress doesnt get to me anymore.as long as you dont get excited after a big win and dont get pissed after a big loss,you wont be stressed out.thats the key.i dont need that big a bankroll because i have a fatalistic attitude towards the whole thing-if i lose my whole bankroll,i go back to work-if not,i keep playing.no harm-no foul.

There are a lot of advantage plays out there but people are careful not to spill the beans because too many people doing anything with a big edge tends to kill it pretty quickly.
(although not as quickly as you would think!)

If you were going full time using just straight card counting then you would need a min. of 50K PLUS enough cash for living expences for at least a year.
Anything else and you are gambling.
Imagine playing six months and losing?
Play long enough and it WILL HAPPEN!
Its almost certain!

Now if you play advantge situations that have much higher edges your chances of being behind are much much smaller.

D.

With all due respect, you're quoting SW, many of us have a different perspective on full-time play than SW did when he wrote his book. Most full-time advantage players had choices and decided this is how we would earn our living. I can assure you most of the full-time adv. players I know lead normal, relatively healthy (as healthy as casino smoking allows) lives.

For someone "just trying to inject some reality into the discussion" you might be a little more credible if you had researched full-time adv. play yourself rather than depend on someone else's opinion, who knows and you might even have come up with a different conclusion than SW did.

If you're a troll, ya got me.:-)

This is the quote I to which I was referring: Those who have skills in multiple fields tend to put cardcounting on the back burner because there are far easier ways of making money with a fraction of the risk.

The "fields" to which I was referring have nothing to do with gambling, advantage or otherwise. With respect to the game of blackjack, I agree with both you and Dreamer.

because,as you said I was quoting an acknowledged expert in the field. Certainly you are entitled to your opinion and it may be the correct opinion. I was merely pointing out what the originator of this board said many years ago. Maybe you believe conditions are better now for playing blackjack than in the 70's and 80's? I was playing at that time and (just my opinion) the conditions were far superior to those existing now, at least in Vegas and most other areas I have visited. Of course I am not a full-time player, but Stanford was.

Now if we are talking about new games in other locations with break-in dealers, inexperienced supervisors, etc, then that might be a completely different story. But I believe there are far easier ways to make a buck than traveling all over creation to play a game of cards.

Just my opinion - thanks for your response.

AB

"It's a hard way to make an easy living."

This was said to me at a blackjack table one night by a man who thought he was an advantage player. He let me in on how he supplemented his income gambling. He was without a doubt a losing ploppy, but I found truth in his line.

-Playing For A Living

My experience has been different from what SW wrote several years ago, most APs I know are fairly "normal" individuals who for whatever reasons have made AP their career choice, with a few exceptions (you know who you are:-)) we are not the emotional challenged people SW makes us out to be in his book.

[Now if we are talking about new games in other locations with break-in dealers, inexperienced supervisors, etc, then that might be a completely different story. But I believe there are far easier ways to make a buck than traveling all over creation to play a game of cards]

Your short list before etc., is focused on card counting, what you don't seem to understand is, while we as a group play anywhere from 0-100 percent BJ, most of us fall somewhere in between. We shuffle track, play tournaments, hustle comps, cash coupons, sports bet, exploit casino promos, play the internet, wong slots, play video poker as well as take advantage of other exploitable situations. BTW, many of us don't fly or drive all over creation to ply or trade, we find advantageous games are in our own back yard.

I would suggest if you got to know some full-time APs you would have a different opinion of who we are and how we earn our livelyhood.