How do you find out about counting policy?

I've seen some posts about places that can't back you off. How do you figure out what the policy is without asking? It seems like it would be kind of a red flag to ask the pit how they feel about counters (particularly since I'm on about my fourth winning session in a row)?

I've seen some posts about places that can't back you off. How do you figure out what the policy is without asking?

In New Jersey, casinos cannot back you off, but they can make the game unplayable. I believe, but am not sure, that the same is true in Missouri. The Indiana gaming regulators discourage backoffs but do not prohibit them. I think that's about it.

I doubt if any individual casino has a policy of no backoffs, unless forced on them by law. They differ in the betting level that gets their attention, and the backoff methods used -- some are polite and professional about it, others are rude, nasty, and encourage casino employees to commit crimes against an unwanted patron ("backrooming", etc.).

but I'd suggest another tactic.
"How do you figure out what the policy is without asking?"
You have to figger that it is policy to bar (or foil) counters everywhere. You may get a pass at lower limits, or just fail to register on their radar until you bet at higher limits. Some joints have a low tolerance for counters at any level.

Talk to your dealer, and after establishing a rapport, ask about a mythical guy you saw being escorted out by security from a Blackjack table a while back. See what they say. I'd strongly advise against initiating any conversation about counting, or mentioning anything that would lead them to believe you are an educated player.

The risk of being barred is a concern, but make sure that your game does not suffer unduly because of it. I'd rather be tossed for winning, than be welcomed for playing a losing game.

Sentry

Congrats on four straight Winning sessions! I do not think, in general, there are places that "cannot back-off a player".

With this said, two states, Missouri and New Jersey have state law/rules that prohibit player's from being denied right to play blackjack based on skill, i.e., counting. Trade off is their games usually suck....lots more 8D in N.J., and lots of "crappy-rule" 6D and DD in MO. One can still get decent rule 6D with 5D pen. in MO, but it is sparse and volatile....there one week, gone the next. These states can, and do, short-shuffle when a CC is suspected.

As to the rest of the BJ world, some stores have reputations for being Counter Tolerant.....don't win too much, be polite to Dealer, Waitress, other Players, Tip, don't stay too long, did I mention Tip, and you will be allowed lots of unhassled sessions.

Conversely, some stores, such as "Barbarian Coast" in LV have reputations of NO Tolerance!

Hope this helps some.

Phantom007.

I played there once in my life, back in June. At a $10 table (real high stakes. :) ). Count was -3 and I was contemplating leaving when the player at first base doubled his bet to $20. Believe it or not, a suit walked up behind him and told him to back away from the table and get his chips. They walked off (I did not hear the rest of the conversation but can guess) and he did not return. I bailed at that point figuring that there would be no way to spread and win without getting the axe. I didn't go back as there were plenty of places where this was not a problem. I played at Caesar's and found a dealer that was counting for fun, on a table with maybe 2 other players. They left and after a few minutes of head-to-head where I did pretty well, he commented "you are very quick and clean with your counting... If I were not counting along and tracking your bets, I'd never have guessed." I shrugged my shoulders and played on for another hour with absolutely no hassle of any kind. Of course, most dealers (IMHO) don't give a care so long as you toke 'em occasionally. And he _particularly_ liked $10 tokes on high counts. :)

So some are good, some are bad, and some should be drug out back and shot.

Seems like everyone has been backoffed at the Coast. Just wondering though whether anyone has had trouble playing at Stardust? Recent encounter seemed to indicate quick backoff.

Since the player at first base evidently wasn't counting, would doubling his bet have been their only justification for the back off?... I don't understand. Don't non-AP players like to vary their bets? Why would they play there if even doubling their bet would be a problem.

scarab

I am not sure what their "policy" is. A few friends of mine told me to avoid the place, as it was about the most unfriendly BJ environment out there. However, as my wife and I tried to at least visit most of the casinos (we typically range from the Grand to maybe Caesar's as that is enough walking whether it is hot or cold out) just to see what the rest of the place looked like. She decided she was going to play $20 or so worth of slots in every place we could reach so that she could tell her friends "I played most of the casinos both on and off the strip."

I don't do slots so I sort of did the same for BJ although as you might guess, it was mostly for fun with little counting in such a quick "hit and run" mode. But rumors had it this one casino was very tough, and that they had backed off lots of progressive (non-counting) bettors as well as backing off anyone that even mentioned a number while sitting at the table. Based on maybe 10-15 minutes total playing time there, it seems to be true. I probably should have tried a couple of spreads just to see what happened, but something in me wants to avoid _any_ attention at all. :)

Since there are plenty of places that are not _that_ paranoid about counting, I will avoid the ones that seem to be nuts about eliminating it.

....I am not sure what their "policy" is.

Here is their "policy":

If you win any amount their money, you are gone, it's that simple.

My "policy"?

Screw 'em, feed 'em fish heads.

Regards,
drumz1

Barbary Coast's games are garbage, the place is nasty, the employees are rude, apparently due to a company-wide policy of rudeness.

Its terrible games makes the paranoid, sweaty pit even more laughable. Can you imagine how much BC pit people must hate their jobs? Imagine going to work every day in such an environment. Sad for them.

The place should be imploded.

Any idea what the regulations are in Washington State?

for garage parking. :) The only downside is you have to exit westbound on Flamingo, and wait at the Las Vegas Blvd light. Not really a big deal if headed that way in the first place, but can be a pain if eastbound is the real direction.

cheers
bfb

go play a high denomination progressive video poker game at any of their properties during a 2x points promotion...better yet...play two machines side by side and play fast.

Are you saying they will "back you off" a VP machine?

:)

What would they do if you bet on 00 in roulette and hit? Bar you?

:)

are now very common at Orleans and other Coast properties. I know several Las Vegas VP pro's who are not allowed to play at Coast Properties, especially the progressive VP games.

Last year during the infamous Coast 2x Royal promo (bring your Hockey ticket and get 2x Royals for a few hours after the game), Coast 86'd several players for having the nerve to play High Denomination Video poker during the promotion.

What is their rationale? IE surely they can't just claim "you are winning, you must go". That's about what a counter runs into of course ("you are too good for our casino...") but for video poker? I assume you are talking about the VP games where the payoff is good enough that the house advantage is either near zero or slightly negative with perfect play? And they offer another advantage to a player and then bar him for using it? :)

I'm not a VP player myself (at least I only play rarely), but barring someone from video poker seems like a _real_ stretch when the casino gets to set everything in their favor. This would be a good case for regulating them tightly, next I suppose a jackpot winner on the slots will be 86'ed??

Washington casinos can, and will, bar advantage players although I will say that half-shoes are a much more common occurance.

you only play good machines...the casino cannot beat you for significant money...you only play during multiple point promos or only play progressives when the progressive makes the game positive....we don't want your business...you are barred from playing Video Poker in our Casino.

The same rationale used at Blackjack is now used at Video Poker...instead of watching how you jump your bets when the count goes up they simply watch your selection of machines.

I wonder if you pick the wrong head in the men's room if you can get backed off in there?

Seems like a stupid rationale, but it seems that to the casinos, what they really want is max profits, with an occasional high-visibility jackpot winner to encourage others to try to do the same thing.

Sounds like they might consider backing someone off if they play perfect basic strategy without counting? I mean, that shrinks the casino's edge to around .5% or less. Sheesh...

They really just want a "deposit all your cash here and leave" sign over a big barrel? :)

Long hours of DD play, 6-8:1 spread, tip smartly, be "fun" for others at table, Dealers, PC's etc., and "limit" wins as well as losses.

Also at this store, sacrifice some time and $$$ at their "odd-ball" craps game...odds are something like 5x for 6,8, 4x for 5,9, and 3x for 4,10.

Have actually spent 5-day LV trips inside the Stardust property...really, never left the building from arrival until departure day. Good rooms, great restaurants (buffet marginal), barber/beauty shop, sports book, several small shops (mostly woman-stuff and/or trinkets). Walkable to Fashion Show mall, and several other casino's. Usually have $10 DD and $5 6D.

Overall, my favorite place to stay. With travel, better games are available in LV, but I tend to play about 1/2 of each trip's time here.

ph.7.