How bogus is this?

Oneida in Green Bay.

"High Roller" pit.

I was playing at a dd game, and the only other table being used was a sd with three rounds being dealt to three players. My table was breaking out four new decks, so I took the break to watch the other game.

First base had a $150 bet out, and doubled on his 7-2 against the dealers slop card. All three players wound up winning, as the dealer busted. At this point, the guy in the middle spot points out the sign on the table that reads "Double allowed only on 10-11"

The dealer had to call the floor over, and theplayers extra $150 was returned!

I wasn't even playing, and wanted to slap the dork pointing that out to the dealer! It didn't affect him, so why would he care?

Besides that, the house should have paid the bet, IMO, and said no mistakes like that would be honored in the future. I thought it was a weak move.

Rules are rules and the casino has every right to protect its assets and make certain that everyone at the table is playing by the same rules. I'm sure, had the bet lost and the floor or surveillance noticed, the hand would have been nullified and the bets would have been returned.

That player should be commended for his honesty, not chastised for helping to make the game fair.

At this point, the guy in the middle spot points out the sign on the table that reads "Double allowed only on 10-11"

The dealer had to call the floor over, and the players extra $150 was returned!

This guy should win the dreaded Ploppy of the Year award! What a jerk. Poorly handled by the pit, as well.

What's the rest of the story? What did the victim of the ploppy's idiocy say or do? What did the others at the table say or do?

That player should NOT have been commended for his honesty. It wasn't his winning bet that was forfeited. If it was his bet, and he said something, then maybe he should be commended. As it was, he should have kept his damn mouth shut.

The guy was okay with the ruling. Hey, I know what Da Boss is saying, but good customer relations should be to pay the wager. The guy wasn't running a scam, and the bet had no play whatsoever in the outcome of the other hands.

The other player should be commended? He should have been kicked between the nuts! It was none of his business.

...especially with the part about the kick in the nuts.

ANS

Responsible people should make it their business to correct or point out wrongs when they see them happen. This is similar to the witnessing of a crime, though of course not nearly as severe. If you witness someone steal something, is it not your civic duty as a good citizen to report this? This has no financial bearing on you and could technically be considered "none of your business" but should you just let wrongs go uncontested?

As for the pit's response, that was probably the wrong call to make. The hand should have been voided altogether and the deck shuffled and a new round dealt. You see, when the player doubled instead of just hitting, it may have changed the course of the hand for the whole table. Sometimes, it is correct to hit again after you hit your 9 into a small dealer upcard. So, in principle, whenever a rule is broken which could affect the play of the hand the hand should be dead for all at the table, regardless of who has what in his hand or what the dealer has. In the long run, this is the most fair approach for the casino and the players.

Unless it's your bet, you keep your damn mouth shut.

to make sure the house doesn't f*ck up. To reiterate what several other have already said, that ploppy should have kept his mouth shut.

Every place should have procedures for dealing with these irregularities. Different places often have different procedures. As advantage players we should be aware of the procedures for the places at which we play, and how to (legally) exploit them if possible.

For example, in some places the cards would be backed up in situations such as this. One should have at least a basic knowledge of next-card play in order to exploit this. It may not happen often, but when it does you could have a 200% edge.

On the subject of dealer errors, I never feel obligated to point out those in the players' favour (unless of course there in my favour and the floor is watching). Similarly, the house - having established procedures for dealing with irregularities and had them approved by the relevant gaming authorities and/or the state - is under no obligation to pay me if a mistake in my favour is caught.

Know the rules, play by the rules, and beat them at their own game.

"Responsible people should make it their business to correct or point out wrongs when they see them happen."

Nonsense,it's the dealers responsibility to carry out the rules,not the players. Players are not casino employees.

"The hand should have been voided altogether and the deck shuffled and a new round dealt."

That's like putting a double whammy up the players @ss.
If your casino uses this scam to steal money from players,then they should be reported to the Gaming Officials for cheating.
I've seen this scam attempted by cheating pit bosses at a few unworthy casinos. If the player would have LOST his double down($300) the cheating pit boss will simply say "Excuse me sir,but from now on please dont double on 9,it's the rules."
If the player has won the hand, the boss will cheat the player out of, not only his double down bet but his INTIAL bet as well. "Uh,sorry sir, we have to void the entire hand,you win nothing. However,here's a comp for a hotdog."

If anyone experiences being cheating by this scam, report it the higher officials.

"In the long run, this is the most fair approach for the casino and the players."

Nonsense again,this is downright cheating the players.

Nonsense,it's the dealers responsibility to carry out the rules,not the players. Players are not casino employees.

At all casinos I have ever been in, rules such as d10 are posted very clearly on the table. It is everyone's responsibility to play by the rules, not just the dealer's.

That's like putting a double whammy up the players @ss.
If your casino uses this scam to steal money from players,then they should be reported to the Gaming Officials for cheating.

I am not a casino owner but, if I did own a casino, I certainly would not resort to cheating. I would only offer a game and stick to the rules exactly as they are posted.

I've seen this scam attempted by cheating pit bosses at a few unworthy casinos. If the player would have LOST his double down($300) the cheating pit boss will simply say "Excuse me sir,but from now on please dont double on 9,it's the rules."
If the player has won the hand, the boss will cheat the player out of, not only his double down bet but his INTIAL bet as well. "Uh,sorry sir, we have to void the entire hand,you win nothing. However,here's a comp for a hotdog."

Please don't assume that ALL bosses are cheaters or would try to take a shot like that. In fact, most bosses I have seen will usually let the player get away with one mistake or shot as a matter of courtesy and let other players at the table back out of a hand if a mistake occurs. I agree that what you describe is no more right than trying to double down when you are not allowed. You are misconstruing what I have written, probably just because you want to. You are yet another disgruntled card counter. I do not advocate cheating, regardless of whether it is perpetrated by the casino or the players. Rules are rules and they should always be followed.

Nonsense again,this is downright cheating the players.

You have an odd perspective. Apparently, you think players should be allowed to double down on a 9 in a d10 game and, if they are not allowed to, it is somehow cheating. I stand by my previous statement, which is to say, the rules should always be followed and, if they are not, the hand should be voided.

I hope everyone takes a moment to listen to themselves, so to speak and then we might see why card counters have gotten such a bad reputation in casinos. Some card counters play honestly and honorably but it seems like most try to take shots whenever they get the chance, even if it is through questionable tactics like trying to double a 9 in a d10 game. Sure, some floorpeople are bad in their judgement, too, but that is no excuse to play dirty.

by accepting then paying the players bet, they have taken the bet, and should pay up, and then point the rules out....

by voiding the round AFTER the casino has lost is also pretty stupid...the other players won fairly....they should not be penalised on what may or may not have been...

the other player should have kept his mouth shut....what was his problem anyway???must have had a pole us his @ss...

DBoss you obviously have problems...the casino took the bet and it should be honoured...

i dont know how you could possibly stick up for the casinos....
it sounds like you work for a casino by the way...

as a double down and the casino was wrong to take back the bet - most places I've played would have honored the wager since the rules violation wasn't caught before the "decision" - it's an ex post facto sort of thing, legally speaking - rules such as these, just like table limits, are usually "waiverable" by the pit - reminds me of a scene several years ago at Harrah's LV - $10 min dice table, I'm shooting, derelict looking old guy comes to the table and places what appears to be his last $5 chip in the field, dealer says "$10 Game sir", pit says let him bet it (don't you just love those guys salivating after the poor soul's last chip?), I throw a string of field numbers and the guy parlays his bet up to $80 before taking his profits, leaving $5 in the field for the next roll after pocketing $75, whereupon the "Pit" says "$10 Game sir" and reimposes the table min

"At all casinos I have ever been in, rules such as d10 are posted very clearly on the table. It is everyone's responsibility to play by the rules, not just the dealer's."

These are tiny signs that can easily be missed. You're now trying to add a new twist by implying this ploppy was cheating.

"I am not a casino owner but, if I did own a casino, I certainly would not resort to cheating. I would only offer a game and stick to the rules exactly as they are posted."

By voiding the entire round, you are in fact "cheating" the players. You dont have to be a casino owner to cheat. A disgruntled greedy pit boss would work just fine.

"Please don't assume that ALL bosses are cheaters or would try to take a shot like that. In fact, most bosses I have seen will usually let the player get away with one mistake or shot as a matter of courtesy and let other players at the table back out of a hand if a mistake occurs."

Your adding another twist, I never said(or implied) that ALL bosses cheat,only a few...you happen to be one of them. Why piss the ploppies off? You're going to get all their money back and then some,so why cheat?

" I agree that what you describe is no more right than trying to double down when you are not allowed. You are misconstruing what I have written, probably just because you want to. You are yet another disgruntled card counter. I do not advocate cheating, regardless of whether it is perpetrated by the casino or the players. Rules are rules and they should always be followed."

I'm not miscontruing anything. Voiding the entire round after the bets and results have already been played out is downright cheating,understand? If you want to void a round do it BEFORE the results not AFTER. You sure know how to piss off a bunch of ploppies,dont you? I'm not the disgruntled card counter, but an honest one with a sincere opinion. The ploppies you treat are the disgruntled,not I.

"You have an odd perspective. Apparently, you think players should be allowed to double down on a 9 in a d10 game and, if they are not allowed to, it is somehow cheating."

Did I say this?

"I stand by my previous statement, which is to say, the rules should always be followed and, if they are not, the hand should be voided."

Yes,BEFORE the results,not AFTER.

"I hope everyone takes a moment to listen to themselves, so to speak and then we might see why card counters have gotten such a bad reputation in casinos. Some card counters play honestly and honorably but it seems like most try to take shots whenever they get the chance, even if it is through questionable tactics like trying to double a 9 in a d10 game. Sure, some floorpeople are bad in their judgement, too, but that is no excuse to play dirty."

I dont think anyone here is taking shots or playing dirty. We're just talking of fair judgment.....your not.

@

The play was made, and accepted. A simple "No bets like that will be honored in the future, sir" would have served it's purpose.

The player who pointed out the error is an idiot. A "smart" casino would not have risked alienating a potential good guest by taking back the money...that said...the player took a shot and got caught...it happens.

I wonder what that big mouth ploppy would do if his winnings were voided and the deck re-shuffled. Bet you 100 to 1 he wouldn't say a word if he knew that in advance.

So I have to agree with your policy here, DBoss. At least it makes "honest players" like that ploppy keep their mouths shut.

not between the nuts, make sure they line up with the top of your booted foot. This guy was jealous and wanted to frig the guy over. The dealer is responsible for checking the players bets and if he took the bet, he should pay it. That is what I have seen at the tables. They usually make decisions in favor of the player. It's just good business to do so. Probably saves a few ploppies lives in the process.