because this is all an act to get the PC to take your side of the confontation.
We are all actors there. Play the role.
because this is all an act to get the PC to take your side of the confontation.
We are all actors there. Play the role.
You said -
Where do I start? When I spoke of anger management, I was saying it in jest...matter of fact, I'm a very resolved kind of guy. I was just curious as to whether or not I should have made a snappy comment back at the guy to quiet them down in the future.
My response -
Snappy comebacks, in these situations, usually cause confrontation instead of communication. Confrontations can cause you to lose your count(s), delay play (lost hands/hr), imprint you in the dealer and/or Pit minds (if your comeback includes statements the dealer or Pit can interpret as demonstrating BS, CC, or AP skills), cause other players to go on-tilt (which can slow the game, assure the Pit stays at the table monitoring play, or cause further confrontations). What NoPeaking and I are trying to show you is this is a battle of brains, not hormones. If you want the other players silenced, immediately turn to a Pit to have him/her take action. This will direct the offending players venting against the Pit, which is futile, since the Pit can not only toss them from the table but also the casino.
You said -
Quite frankly, I know my wife or I, when I play, am not playing the others and could quite frankly care less what they think of my play or my decisions, but my wife is more easily hurt than I am and their manners toward her was downright wrong.
My response -
It's a cold, cruel world we live in Master Jack. People are mean to others either deliberately (as in this case) or unintentionally, but either way indifference to the feelings of others exists in this world and in most instances is not against the law, even if it is repugnant. Your wife hurts when she takes these incidents personally and recoils, trying to defend herself from within. Knowing this, as a husband, one of your roles should be to help your wife understand and develop the tools to deal such incidents. Playing BJ or anything else for a profit (including working at a job) should be approached as a war. You must set goals and develop game/battle plans for both the expected and unexpected events that will occur. You must prepare for these 'battles' as a sports team would prepare for a game - basic conditioning (mental/physical), learning and honing of fundamental skills, working on advanced skills, practice for recovery in many types of disaster scenarios, developing specific gameplans and alternative gameplans for the specific game/session you will be playing. A big part of BJ play includes good/bad situations that can be anticipated to occur. How often do you and your wife discuss these situations and develop optimal responses, for both of you, to the situations? The time to determine your response to a situation that can be anticipated is before the situation occurs. Then, when the situation occurs, training kicks-in and the situation is resolved. In this case, the most effective response is to use the Pit to resolve the situation (Pits do love to flex their powers) - 1. the Pit can be cued by you, as the husband, on a pleasant social outing and not looking for a confrontation to upset the occasion (no loss of masculinity here), 2. by your wife as the hapless victim of player abuse. Again, by discussing situations and responses in advance (certainly you have seen or lived this situation before) you can effect a resolution with minimum disruption to your play while remaining below the radar. Do not forget to thank the Pits when they act.
You said -
Looking back at the situation, I should have said something a little more snappy...something like Stealth Bomber suggested, but leaving the table, NEVER. I feel they should leave if they didn't like her play. And my wife DIDN'T leave, either. They went broke on the next hand and they left. PC didn't hear anything except the other player's reactions and dealer made no comments after they left. But my wife WAS hurt and I feel that people need a little more class when they play, that's all. These two bums had none!
My response -
My responses above address the snappy response and the other players class or lack thereof. As for NEVER leaving, if the table has turned bad, after invoking the aid of the Pit, it would be a good time to leave, either temporarily or for the session. Your leaving would be attributed to the incident, not to your knowledge of the current table conditions. As for what the Pit heard and the dealer not saying anything immediately about your reasons for hitting the 12, a Pit does not have to be looking at you or standing next to the table to hear what was said - how many time have you, in a crowd, heard something that others thought you did not hear. Plus, after an incident, a Pit will wait until the dealer is relieved (cannot stop the money machine) before inquiring what happened. I have seen and heard this happen many times in different casinos. So your comments may reach the Pit's ear.
You said -
You say I/or my wife should say "I'm Sorry"...you serious?
I would never apologize for doing something correctly. If I'd would have asked them what they would have done, they would have said to not hit the 12. Then when I get into the followup question of why?, they would just get more aggravated and a bigger scene would develop...I chose to let it go and told my wife to just play and forget it...they steamed for another hand or two until they broke and left...all's well.
My response -
Say 'I had the feeling that an 8 or 9 was there' and let it drop. If they press, use the Pit as discussed above. You are not there to educate the other players or demonstrate your advance knowledge in the game. Do not discuss strategy, CC, or AP anywhere in a casino or casino hotel. Do not discuss it when you can be overheard (a correct scene in Rainman, where a prostitute turned informer). Do not discuss it on public conveyances (planes, trains, buses, etc.). Do not even brag to your friends and relatives about your skills. A secret shared is not a secret.
You said -
Reasoning for my question is to find out what more experienced players would have done in a similiar situation because I know you guys have played many more rounds than me and have experienced similiar situations in the past.
Thanks for your input.
Radar
My response -
We all have knowledge and experience to share and your posts have done a fine job to help define the casinos and gaming experiences where you play. The major obstacle we all face is barring. Anything that can help a casino determine that they have a lower edge against us can lead to a barring. Therefore, whatever you can do, that does not cost money or edge, to demonstrate to a casino that you are a mark who is only out for a social goodtime and are not there to take their BR will help your cover. Remember Joe Fox's lines (Tom Hanks) -
'It isn't personal. It's just business'.
Good luck with your training and game-days.
J1
BJ is not so important that you allow someone to verbally assault a member of you're family. Be it a Wife, Son, Daughter.
As a man you are the protector, no matter where you are, screw the casino.
You can let an abuser know verbally, or by look, that you are not going to stand for abuse and no, you are not going to scurry off to another table and hide. Consequences will be forthcoming if it continues.
I have had plenty of confrontations at a table, because being a counter you will. Then there is always those nasty people just lurking and hoping for a chance to run off at the mouth. On a few occasions I have come this (-) close to a throw down, and no, I would not have given any warning to the abuser, it would have just came at him.
So, Radar, forget the mumble/jumbo, be a man, take no s*#&.
Noone asked Radar not to be a protector.
We did ask Radar to be an intelligent protector by making an innocuous statement, like 'I thought the card was going to be an 8 or a 9' or asking the Pit for the correct strategy. If that did not defuse the situation, the Pit would be called to deal with those confronting his wife and him. The Pit deals with the situation and draws the resultant heat from the other players - it is part of the Pit's job to flex these 'muscles' and most Pits like to do so. Radar would have protected his wife by using his intelligence - why execute a frontal charge on an enemy position when you can drop a neutron bomb, the Pit, on the position.
This makes more sense than delaying the game, having an extended verbal battle with those players and their entourages (who are frequently more combative than the players), having a physical battle in which his wife and/or he could be injured, preventing stalking of his wife and/or him after they left the table, and to prevent mental mistakes on the part of Radar and his wife because they are on an adrenelin rush from the confrontation.
Historically, some verbal and physical battles have lead to charges being filed against one or both sides in the arguments with the resultant legal battles and costs plus disrupted trips. In Vegas this may not be a major problem, since both parties are usually tourists. Since they were not playing in Vegas, they could be 'the strangers' in a conflict with a local. Who do you think the local authorities would prosecute. On the other hand, using the Pit would gain Radar the support of the casino and the home-town advantage would probably be abated, if not negated.
The object is to win the war, not to out-hormone your opponent.
I agree with jL about using the pit to your advantage when it is useful to you. RADAR, I hope you will not ever push a confrontation with another player. If you do you might get arrested, and you may also get thrown out of the casino permanently. On two occasions I have seen people come to blows at a blackjack table. Both times the people involved were escorted out by security (forcefully) and told publicly to never return to the casino. This happened once at Binion's and once at Boulder Station (both in Vegas). Their pictures are probably on file in some system or other. I know it feels better to win the ego battle with the other player, but is it worth the risk? If you want to win at this game you MUST have control over your emotions. If being emotional is part of your act, fine. If not, you will make mistakes (lose count, chase after losing, etc...). I hope you will consider this.
N.P.
Speaking of the connection between emotions and memory, it has been shown in many studies that it is easier to establish a long term memory when it has an emotional association. This can be used as an aid to memorization. For example, if you want to remember that you should stand on a 16 against a 10 when the count is positive you can have it take on an emotional significance for you. You could tell yourself, "I'm happy I get to stand on my 16 against that 10 because that means the count is positive!" Actually turn on your internal feelings of happiness when you are thinking about it. This may sound wacky, but it works! Your memory will improve quite a lot. Just remember your emotions don't change the odds, you are using control of your emotions to improve your play.
As another example, I have a feeling Radar will long remember that he should hit a 12 against a 2 or 3. This play has an emotional significance for him and that emotion will return again and again when he is in that situation. The feeling may get weaker over time, but the memory will be there for quite awhile.
N.P.
JL,
Thanks, I appreciate your input. I see now where it would have been better to engage the pit.
You're right...their comments and actions DID cause my wife and me a short period of time where we lost concentration of the game and we probably should have left.
I have always played with the intention of leaving a table whenever the other players were not to my liking, why didn't I follow my own advice this time? Guess ego was showing and it shouldn't.
I WILL talk to my wife about these things in the future and I am glad I engaged you all here on this topic because I am getting a wonderful education.
Thanks again,
Radar
Obviously, I felt the way you did, but what about the people here who are saying that any confrontation will only bring scrutiny on you from the Pit? Isn't that true? If it is, WHY do we want scruting? I would think that is the LAST thing we want.
Obviously, there isn't a standard train of thought on this subject here amongst you CC. I kind of thought there would be.
I am currently reading Ian Andersen's "Burning the Tables in LV" and about a quarter of the way through. Maybe he has a chapter on how to deal with bums at the table?
Thanks for your input.
Radar
Thaks, NP...
I "didn't" go off on these guys, just said something like "Easy, guys" or something to that effect. Then, I kept totally quiet, as did my wife. I was embarrassed for her because "I" caused her hurt by telling her to hit it. But I WASN'T happy with them, either, make no mistake. IF I could have come up with a snappier line like Stealth Bomber suggested, I probably would have used it.
However; after reading all these responses, my enlightenment has caused me to step back and reevaluate how to handle such situations in the future.
I am indebted to all of you! Thanks
I am currently reading Ian Andersen's "Burning the Tables in LV" and about a quarter of the way through. Maybe he has a chapter on how to deal with bums at the table?
Ian Andersen played (or plays?) alone against the dealer as often as possible, which is a great way to avoid these undesirables. Of course, it's easier to do that when you're betting purple.
Yeah, I know but he has said that he does play games with other players...no more than two, but prefers one-on-one...and I have been thinking about that myself...now all I have to do is get a bankroll together that will warrant such play Definitely a way of avoiding the bums...
I have adopted a policy of playing my hand and keeping count. I dont care what people do to the left or right. If I paid attention to what every idiot did and how it affected my hand, I would never be able to concentrate on the count.
So, don't apologize to me for the way you play, and I won't apologize to you for the way you play.
I once had an very old asian lady explain to me how what I had done 2 hands ago had affected her current hand. I told her to look around, there are a lot of other tables open, feel free to move along. Her next hand was a blackjack. I then asked her how did what I had done affect that.
I guess I have no patience for whining....
Ok...fire away....
It depends on the situation, the D, pit critters, other players, our act and the list goes on. If I use the snappy come back, I'll do it so as to appear to be a fairly smart ploppy with an ego as I quickly pull out my little laminated B S card. Think about it, what A P carries one of those little B S cards? It's part of the "act" my friends. If it's done right, it helps to keep the evil demons chasing something else.
Stealth Bomber
I think all of us A Ps should whine some when somebody does something out of the usual norm and the D subsequently cooks the whole table. My friends, it's just for the "act" and to blend in. I just keep on talkin' and jabberin', just like a stupid ploppy. Maybe this is one of the reasons I get away with large spreads. ;-)
Stealth Bomber
Sorry y'all, just kidding. LOL ;-)))))))
Great original post Radar! Look what you started. It's been fun and educational.
Stealth Bomber
S.B. makes a good point about cover. If bad players are more likely to do something than good players then that behavior is useful cover to the good player. How's that for a standard rule?
N.P.
Stealth,
My wife and I keep the cards, as well. Even though I knew the correct play, maybe I should have told her to pull her card out and look...maybe that way, the other lowlifes would not have made such a big deal after the hand? Then again, they would have still been pee'd knowing they lost all their money...They still probably would have fired on her, anyway.
Like you said "It's been fun and educational."
I know that drunken acts and belingerent ploys can be good cover, but has anyone used physical activity against other players this way?
Hey I'm learning, remember?
I often make plays that the typical know-it-all ploppy wants to scrutinize, especially when the T C is way North or way South. Sometimes I just let it go and then later when I save that same ploppy's azz with one of my "out of the norm" plays which makes the D bust, I say, "I don't hear you whining this time sir. I have no prob with you tipping me after that one". Once this worked so well it made the guy feel so guilty from what he said earlier that he tossed me a green chip. :-)
Once in a while, I just make a sour looking grin, say nothing, flex my nostrils and lightly shake my head from side to side. (All with confidence)
I think you and the wife just need to gain some bigger balls (well maybe not the wife) Just enjoy the process of trying different ways to deal with this problem. Everyone has to deal with it just about every time they play. You will eventually find many different ways to combat it. Each time it happens however, its a little different scenario.
May the battle field be not so harsh in the future my friend. Enjoy!
Stealth Bomber
Stealth,
I really appreciate all the comments from everyone. It has given me a lot to think about.
Originally I didn't say much because I, 1...was not playing and 2...did not have a quick comeback like you suggested earlier...If I had either of those, I would have responded because that is my personality.
However, now I must consider the role the pit plays into all of this..., if at all.
I guess I will just have to develope my own style as the situation dictates as I get more and more experienced...
Hey, it hasn't scared me away from the game, for sure...I'm on a mission!
Thanks for your help...
Bj21 uses cookies, this enables us to provide you with a personalised experience. More info