I plan to tip a few dollars when I win. On the last hand, with a positive count, should I ask the dealer, "Should I play this for you or just give it to you as a tip?"
I'd say 95%+ of them would want you to bet the chip for them (regardless of the count) and if the game happens to have a side bet that pays out odds they would want you to bet it on the sidebet (regardless of the higher house edge)
Putting it in your pocket and simply walking away is probably the best idea but to each his own.
CherokeeKid,
These days, most casinos "pool" all of the tips and give equal shares to each dealer. In fact, the old style, where each dealer keeps his own tips, is becoming so rare that CBJN has a special notation, "toke", to indicate this.
At any rate, I've found that some of the "pool" places have a rule: if the customer offers the dealer the choice between taking the tip or playing it, the dealer is required to take it.
I guess the casinos are afraid of gambling ;-)
Dog Hand
Dog Hand
I am not aware of any casinos with that rule but that is probably because it is a rule that rarely, if ever, would effect me. I toke sometimes but never ask the dealer.
My gut tells me the casino would tend to want the player to bet the toke because the casino wins most hands, so more money for the house. That same oversized gut tells me that a toke committee dedicated to getting more money for the dealers would want them to not gamble a toke.
ihate17
That seems to make sense.
I don't tip much but when I do, I bet it for the dealer. In most place I play, the dealers pool tips so they don't have too much to gain anyway (although something is better than nothing). Every once in a while, I will ask the dealer pay or play, and most say play, as happens when others ask the same question. I don't think there is anything bad about asking. A little interaction helps with cover for your counting, as does the tipping. Either way is fine. However, I will leave a table if the dealer hustles tips.
Just stiff him!
Just stiff him!
Of course I agree with this, as part of my normal policy.
Sometimes an angry dealer who hates the patron will deal faster and faster out of frustration, and deal deeper and deeper without realizing it. An alert player can exploit these situations.
I am playing in a California Indian casino where dealers go for their own tokes.
A "George type" player at first base has a table max bet out and a $100 toke for the dealer and has a pat hand. I have soft 18 vs dealer 5. I double, pull a ten, the dealer turns 15 pulls a 5 and kills the table. While picking up the cards the dealer holds the ten I hit high and waves it back and forth, showing the table "why" they lost.
I just tell the dealer, "very professional," but continue playing as the count and pen are both great. I go on a very nice streak of variance both that shoe and the next, winning the vast majority of hands, especially those with big bets out. Even get to split 9's to 4 hands with two doubles and win 6 max bets.
During this streak I tell the dealer, "you should completely understand that there will never be a cent toked by me for you!" Color up a big win shortly after the next shoe thinking that even on the blackjack table there is justice.
Not my biggest win ever but one that was really pleasing.
Suppose I were willing to toke $1 on each of 100 hands. On average I will win 43 hands, the house will win 48, and 9 will push.
If I always give the toke, the dealer gets $100, regardless of win,lose or push.
If I bet the $1 for the dealer, the dealer gets $2 on our wins,for a total gain of 43x2=$86. The house loses $43 paying the dealer's part of the win.
On our losing hands, the dealer gets nothing, and the house gets 1x48=$48.
If this reasoning is correct then:
1) The dealer should prefer to be given the toke since he gains $14.
2) The house should prefer that I bet the toke since it gains $5.
3) I would rather give the toke so that it all goes to the dealer and nothing to the house. (It would cost me $9 more to give because if I bet the toke the pushes would have no cost.)
(BTW - In the local casino, where I am well known, I don't do either of the above, but at the end of a winning session I will hand the dealer a small percentage.)
But if you "pay or play" only when the deck is positive, this analysis does not apply.
"But if you "pay or play" only when the deck is positive, this analysis does not apply."
If you are saying that when the count is positive the win/lose/push percentages are much different from the average 43/48/9, then I can't agree.
Have a look at "www.blackjackincolor" by Norm Wattenberger. Sec. 2.5 shows that the percentages are almost constant in the normal playing range. The win percentage, in particular, appears to vary less than 1%. The lose and push rates do change above TC=+2, but not significantly until the count reaches rare heights.
fatcat519,
Doesn't the dealer's toke turn into $2.50 on an untied natural? In 100 hands, you should get close to 5 untied naturals, giving the dealer an "extra" $0.50*5 = $2.50 per 100 hands.
Also, the "push" percentage you quote counts splits that end in one win and one loss a "push", but in fact if you don't match the toke, then the dealer will have more wins & losses, and fewer pushes. Of course, if you do match the toke on the split hand, then the dealer's results will be as you stated, but you'd be toking more than $100 per 100 rounds. I don't know what the "actual" hand-by-hand W/L/P rates are... that would be interesting to find.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Thanks for the added insight. I thought I might have missed something. However, I think the general conclusion that giving is better for the dealer, and betting is better for the house, still holds.
If you must toke, place a bet for the dealer. To get the most mileage out of the toke, you want other dealers and the pit to know you're toking. If you just toss the dealer a couple chips, they get dropped in the toke box immediately, and it's likely nobody will notice. If you bet for the dealer, your toke bets are on the layout for the duration of the hand and are more likely to get seen.
If the table has a popular side bet, put the toke bet on the side bet. If the side bet happens to win, your $1 bet may turn into a $10-15 toke, compared to the $2 they'd get for a BJ hand. If the bet loses, they should at least remember that you put a bet out for them. Another benefit of betting the side bet is you don't have to deal with the awkwardness of deciding whether or not to increase your toke on a double-down or split.
