first trip to LV-- advice on heat?

Card counter from St. Louis here making my first gambling trip to Vegas. My question is-- how serious do I have to take the need for camoflaging some of my moves, etc.?

I used to worry about my "act" here in St. Louis, and would be very conscious of staying below the radar, but as time went on, I realized it didn't really matter. I'm not blatant about my counting, but I've never ever gotten heat. Maybe got "noticed" once, when I kept taking insurance on bust hands.

Reading this board, I take it it is a real concern when playing in the *big-time* in Vegas ;)

I plan on hitting as many single-deck joints as I can downtown. I don't plan on returning regularly or any time soon really, so it really wouldn't be a catastrophe if I did run the risk of getting barred.

I just don't want to get roughed up :) Can anyone give me any advice?

Also, where ARE the *best* single deck games?... that you're willing to divulge.

Play as aggressive as you want. If you do happen to get the 'no more blackjack' speech, just go next door. It's not like you were planning on playing there next week, so what have you lost?

Besides, it will give the pit critters something to do and less time to bother the more regular players.

You CAN get the "anything but blackjack" speech in St Louis, but if you keep the spread reasonable and don't try to get rich in just one place in LV, you should have no problems.

You won't get roughed up. But the heat in Vegas is definitely a quantum leap ahead of the hinterlands, which you are used to. So if I were you, I'd be a little more careful than you usually are, don't spend more than an hour or so at a time in any one casino, don't jump your bets too much.

Try single deck at Horseshoe, Las Vegas Club, and we would all be beholden to you if you could try the Western, and give us a trip report when you get back. Word is their single deck got better this month.

:)

I have read all reports, and it sounds like an experience to say the least. I will have to hit that one up, and would take pleasure in providing a report if I'm able.

Thanks a bucnh.

...when I was at the Shoe last week. Show em $100 or less at a time. On the strip, people whip out 2-3 $100 bills all the time; downtown seems like a lot more people buy in with $20's.

I didn't see any good pen at horseshoe and even rookie dealers
at lvc shuffled on red bet jumps. Since you play midwest, I would think you are used to playing shoes, this is what I'd do.

I have read several times that backoffs ("no more BJ") are not allowed in Missouri. I think they can flat-bet you, but I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure, though, that backoffs are allowed near St. Louis at the riverboats docked on the Illinois side of the mighty Mississippi.

I have been 86'ed from a casino in KC for being suspected for counting and not abiding by their flat bet rule.

I don't want to come all the way to Vegas just to play the same tired shoes I play here. I was *hoping* to find some juicy SD and DD games in Vegas. I guess partially I want the experience, but I guess I also just have confidence that I wouldn't have any trouble making the transition.

There have to be at least some playable DD games in Vegas, aren't there? At least some of these have to be more profitable than 6-deck shoes.

Of course I'm sure I can probably find better penetration on shoes in Vegas, just out of the greater number to choose from, and slightly better rules (S17 is gone almost everywhere here), but I've always thought SD and DD were where the real money was at. Am I wrong?

I quess I just consider it a shoe, cause that's how they deal it where I'm from. Try G Nugget,lots of tables, pen varies.

I believe I also read where their was a particular ruling outlawing the barring of card counters. Any info would be appreciated.

How could you possibly get barred in missouri? Unless there's a very smart casino I haven't been to, the pit people are basically inept. I'm not a high stakes player, yet, but i change my bet with reckless abandon and never get any heat... and if i ever got any it'd be so blatent that I'd know to just leave before getting barred... I'd also like info on this ruling if anyone knows...

...troll or an old fragly pit bull that growls at a suspected card counter. The old pit bull dont want us coming around. He dont even know how to answer your question. A sure sign of a stupid sweaty pit bull.

if they try, go the gaming commission officer. They can preferntial shufle at any time, which makes it not worth playing, but if you were 86ed or told a limit other than what the table says, you should be writing the Gaming Commission. Address it to Ernie Raub. CC Rick Alm at the Kansas City Star.

DON'T go away without a stink. This is not Vegas. The Gaming Comission is not owned by the casinos.

Argosy & Isle are at least professional- they will do nothing other than smile and make sure the dealer does not deal penetration beyond 50%. They might change the table limits applicable to everyone at the table, but I have never seen anything other than fairness.

Harrahs and Ameristar are as sleezy as they can get away with. Not the most sohisticated regarding counters but they will take action- pref shuffle, tell player max bet, threaten to pref shuffle if max bet exceeded.

I was there when the casino manager tapped my friend on the arm, took his away from the table and told him he was "too lucky", that he could "play anything but BJ". He had a large amount of chips at home, but had no problems in cashing them in. He went back 3 months later, played 20 minutes before the pit boss came over and ask him to leave. Later after Astar took it over, he went back, lasted 5 minutes.

Maybe he can sue and get his picture in the paper, but why ruin playing in Tunica, LV and other places?

They do not tolerate aggresive play, especially when I have played heavy green to black. Funny thing is I have played with asians and African-Americans and hispanics and watched them play aggresively varying their bets according to the count with little or no heat. Word I get from some casino personnel that I know personally is they profile counters mostly as young to middle aged white males. Guess my next disguise will have to be as a woman or Charlie Chan.