First time out counting

Hey guys, I've been practicing at home for a few months and decided it was time to try out counting for the 1st time in a Casino. Here are the game conditions I was faced with:

- 8 decks
- DOA
- DAS
- H17
- About 65% Pen

I knew these conditions were difficult to begin with so my game plan was to backcount (I use KO) until the KC is reached and wong-in. It took at least 1.5h before the KC was reached so I finally wonged in for the 1st time and played out the last 5 hands on that shoe. I won a few dollars flat betting and called it quits as I started having trouble keeping the count due to fatigue at this point. I learned the following on my 1st time out:

- You must be extremely patient backcounting in my conditions before a good count is reached (using KO)

- I wonged in on a table with 5-6 players which was too high in my view since this lowered the number of hands I could play before the shoe ended.

At this point, I have the following question:

Is there a better counting method for 8D which would allow me to
wong-in earlier in the shoe ?

I would also appreciate any advice from the folks playing 8D which could help my game.

Thanks,

InTraining

The game you are playing is very poor, in basically every way.

Aside from counting more than one table at a time there is no 'safe' way to get more money in action.

I am sorry I could offer nothing more constructive but 8 deck is not my game, hopefully some AC players will chip in.

I think you did about as well as anyone could with your strategy...I admire your disciple to stick to plan.

Your plan was a good one I think, given that you are new and you want to win right away to prove yourself right about counting (that is what I thought about my first playing attempts).

Balanced counts are said to be a little more accurate in judging when/how much of a betting advantage you have, particularly early or late in the shoe. Also, Halves is perhaps the most accurate at sizing up a betting advantage...betting cor of 99% where KO/Hi-Lo come in around 97-98%...BUT, Halves is much more difficult. Your count will get the money.

Balanced counts, and Hi-Lo in particular, are the preferred method for shuffle tracking, and given the shallow penetration of the game, most serious players would not play at your casino unless they were tracking (but that too is a very difficult skill to develop).

You might try one other form of wonging, called the White Rabbit technique, is to enter the shoe at the shuffle and play until your advantage drops below 1% (or TC -1 using Hi-Lo). You will play about 70% of the hands dealt, and you will need to spread at least 1-8 (probably 1-12) to have an edge, see Blackjack Attack 3 (Chpt 12 i believe) for the details. It will give you more time at the tables and less time doing the drudge of backcounting, but it will cause greater fluctuations to your bankroll.

In short, try to find better games, but if you don't have much to choose from, do the best you can building up your skills at your local casino, and plan a road trip for your vacation.

Thanks for the informative replies guys. Concerning the use of shuffle tracking, the Casinos around here use CSMs so thats not an option. Since my bankroll is currently not even close to what it should be, I currently want to keep the level of fluctuations to a minimum by flatbetting when I wongin and also gain as much experience as possible in the process. I will definitly look into the following options as suggested in the future when I am more experienced and have much more $$$:

- Use the White Rabbit technique
- Spread to a second hand when wonging in

Anymore advice and / or opinions concerning 8D play and my current strategy are welcomed.

Thanks,

InTraining

Are you sure the casino you played at used a CSM...continuous shuffler? There is no advantage to counting then...

Perhaps you mean AutoShuffler, where all the cards are placed in the machine at one time, then all removed and placed into a shoe.

With a Continuous, the cards once played are recycled immediately into the cards avaiable for play, thus the penetration into the pack is less than a deck, even though there are 8deck being used.

Please be certain about that as if it is a CSM, you are merely gambling, and will lose in the long run.

BTW, when I was starting out, I had a newby moment, I played at a fake deck 2 game....

Best of luck, keep on playing.

Hi KennilworthKid , it was my mistake ... This casino uses AutoShufler machines.

InTraining

well, anyway, a frequency of count chart would help you if you decide to WhiteRabbit, or Wong-In Wong-Out...

I think the tables in Chapter 10 of Blackjack Attach 3rd Edition would have an 8 deck game like yours, but the tables are expressed in Hi-Lo True Counts...don't know how to convert those to KO...but you could get some idea as to how much to bet with each % of advantage you have...

anyway, you certainly did better than me the first time out...i lost count during the first four sessions (I was playing shoes), but I did play solid basic strategy and had a run of luck to wind up with a 10unit win ( sounds good eh?, but the units were only $5..) being able to play basic meant a lot to me, as I could hang onto my money longer than my wife did at the machines.