First Base Best Clarification?

I would like to clarify my question about first base being the best spot particularly in a 4 deck or 2 deck game. With 1.25 decks left to play the player on first base has sized his bet using all the available information about the ratio of high cards to low cards. The player on third base has also done this but 5 or 6 more cards have been dealt with his bet out there. Isn't the information available about the remaining cards more accurate for the player on first base?

Regardless of where they are sitting, a counter is making their wager based on the remaining deck composition before any cards have been dealt. Assuming no special knowledge, all remaining cards are effectively random.

The third base player will have slightly better knowledge before making playing decisions, but that usually is not enough to make much of a difference, especially if you are not playing single deck.

Personally, I prefer first base because it gives me a straight on view of the discard tray, and also lets me see all down cards before being able to make a bet when I don't bust (or don't have a BJ) on the prior hand. On the other hand, third base usually gives you a better view of cut card placement.

Third base will have a different knowledge before making playing decisions, rather than a better knowledge. Cougfan is right that it doesn't make either position different. The additional knowledge could make you wish you had bet differently, but that is irrelevant as you made the best betting decision you could at the decision point.

I also prefer first base because I can pause to think about my hand while seeing all the cards without looking left and right as in a middle position, and without having to continuously think about my play as the cards come out and the count changes at third base. I can then follow the cards coming out without thinking about my own hand. I find it takes a little less mental effort, which is worth a lot, and I can also carry on a conversation with players, dealers, and pit bosses casually after my hand is done.

"I also prefer first base because I can pause to think about my hand while seeing all the cards without looking left and right as in a middle position, and without having to continuously think about my play as the cards come out and the count changes at third base. I can then follow the cards coming out without thinking about my own hand. I find it takes a little less mental effort, which is worth a lot"

Why don't you write it this way:
I prefer not to have any additional info when it comes to play my hands. If I could, I would prefer not to have the count so I wouln'd have to make decisions. Anyway, who needs additional available info in such an easy task as beating blackjack. All in all, I'm a loser!

This would have been much clearer and straight to the point.

The statement that he made concerning "different knowledge" as opposed to "better knowledge" is just plain wrong. Seeing more cards is better knowledge than not seeing those cards. Period.

Don

I'm reluctant to disagree since you seem like a new poster to this site. But I would rather be at third base in order to make the most up to date decisions. As yesterday, a count was on the border between an index where I would hit or stand on 14 vs 10.

At first base one has to be ready to make a decision. No time to sit and think; the dealer is looking right at you for a decision, as is everyone else at the table.

I mostly agree with what you said about 1st base although this should only be a problem for beginning counters.
Third base has also its drawbacks. You will be exposed to harsh criticism from the rest of the table if you happen to take the bust card of the dealer.
There is sill another possibility which is second base. I like to sit in the middle which allows me to reach all other (possibly empty) spots in case I want to play several hands.
By the way, I wonder which elaborate count you use that gives you an index for 14v10. With all common counting systems this is always a hit.

Francis Salmon

I was only comparing first and third! I prefer the next to last seat for the reasons you mentioned.

I use the "Silver Fox System" for betting and departure decisions. I stand on 14 vs a dealer 10 with a true count of 7 ! Don is familiar with the system.

I try avoid both first and third base for a few reasons not yet mentioned.

1.) The cards look funny. They are at a funny angle and just have a funny look, like they are upside down. Even as a regular player for a decade now, this still slows me down a hair.

2.) Some stores have positioned the tables too close together and if you get into seats at either first of third base, you can be kind of pinned in. Especially if a large person is sitting in the corner of the next table.

3.) Somewhat related to #2. I often am tracking a second neighboring table. This is much more difficult to do from either corner seat and if the count at both tables dictate that I should jump tables, then reason #2 comes into play.

Occasionally, the dealer's arms will get in the way of tracking cards.

If they're a certain height, their arms will be right on top of the 1st base cards. Sometimes I miss what is exposed, especially if they are quick on the scoop-up.

The quick scoop-up is an issue, too. Sometimes, when the dealer sees that the player hand is a bust, they scoop-up almost b4 the busting card hits the felt.

No. 1. All you need to do is look at the pips. In any case, there is no difference between upside down and downside up!

No. 2. there is usually much more room at seat 1 and 2.

No. 3. I don't know how you can see ALL of the cards at another table. And that's a dead giveaway of who you are and what you are doing.

You need to be ready to see and to see quickly.

1. There isn't a difference between a 9 and a 6?? I am just saying that for me, it just takes a hair longer to register.

3. You don't need to see ALL the cards. Just enough to know that the opportunity at the next table is superior to what you currently have.

Dead giveaway? Hasn't been my experience. My backoffs have actually decreased in the last year, which happens to coincide with the period of time, I have been aggressively tracking a second table. Not saying the two are related in anyway, but in my small sample size of of 12-15 months playing almost everyday, it hasn't been an issue. I suppose if you are completely 'rubbernecking' to see every card, it would be a giveaway.

I'm impressed that you are able to play almost everyday. You must be in Las Vegas.

As I said all one has to do is look at the pips and you won't have to be concerned about the real value.

I can't determine whether I would like to go to the next table unless I actually see most of the cards at that table. In other words I need to know the running count at that table.

count by eyeballing the pips, when doing long range counting, which is either the secondary table that I mentioned or just walking by a table glancing at the cards on the felt. But when I am at my primary table, I look at the cards rather than the pips and to be honest, I can't tell you why I do it differently closer range, because I have never even thought about it until you brought it up.

I suppose if I could concentrate more on the pips at my primary table as well, and that would solve some of the problem of the cards looking slightly different, because they (or I) am at a funny angle.

But regardless, my other concerns about both corner positions still remain. I can't see the secondary table as well from that view point, and I don't like being pinned in as you are in some places. Even without tracking a second table, I play a short session, hit and run style and when it's time to go.....It's time to go! :-)

More space for drink holders. :-)

Earl,
Suppose you're sitting at third base with 50 cards having been dealt from a double deck, just as you say. You have the count down cold and have placed your bet. But just before dealing the next round, the dealer spreads the next six cards out on the table face down. He then offers you to blindly select any one of the six as your first card. Which card would you believe it's best for you to take? Think it over.

Is this the floating advantage discussed in Chapter 6 of BJA3?