Edge and Betting Spread Questions

Hello all,

Thank you to any who take the time to read and/or reply to this message.

Would the following be correct:

When using the Hi-Lo count each point of true count is worth approximately 0.5% and when using the Zen count every 2 points of true count are worth approximately 0.5%.

My next question is me looking for more of a critique. I would like the betting spread I have recently experimented with looked over and any possible mistakes pointed out.

The rules for my local 6 deck game are as follows: Double after splitting, split up to 4 times, can't resplit aces but can double for another card, double on any two starting cards, late surrender, blackjack pays 3 to 2, may play up to 2 hands, $3 to $200 table limit, dealer stands on all 17's, penetration is generally 67% but some dealers will go closer to 75% once in a while. $60 is my maximum bet.

All topics below assume the Hi-Lo Lite counting system.

The new betting spread I am using is 1-20 (again please note this is for 6 decks) and goes from $3 to $60 as follows:

(Please note an example of how I calculate my edge: i.e. if RC = 16 and DR = 4 my edge is 2% and I bet $36 as shown below.)

edge less than 0 = $3 (go to bathroom if edge using hi-lo is -1 or worse)
edge at least 0 = $6
0.5% = $6
1.0% = $12
1.5% = $24
2.0% = $36
2.5% = $48
3.0% or higher = $60

If the edge is 1.0% or higher I will play 2 spots at 75% of whatever my current bet is based on the current edge under the following conditions:

2 or more people at the table with me and/or the cut card is about to come out.

All of that being said one thing I wonder about with my strategy is am I assuming my edge correctly? i.e. if I calculate my edge to be 2% based on my Hi-Lo Lite conversion should I be subtracting the house edge and in fact betting less than I am at that point or am I right on with how much I am betting and at what values?

As a final note I'll mention that with my local 2 deck game I have been using a 1 to 8 betting spread.

Here are the rules for my local 2 deck game: no double after splitting, cannot resplit aces, late surrender, double 10 and 11 only, blackjack pays 3 to 2, $5 to $100 table limit, may play up to 2 hands, dealer stands on all 17's, 67% penetration with a dealer rarely allowing closer to 75%.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Great rules compared to what I have available.

My ignorant and uninformed thoughts.

-The DD game isn't nearly as good as the 6D game unless you can play it head to head.

- The count at which you and the house are even would be +1. At an even count, you still will be at the standard house advantage of 0.5%, although I didn't calculate the house edge for your rules.

- I would go nuts trying to make bets in multiples of $3, and the dealers will come to hate you.

- You don't say what the size of your bankroll is, but if you want your max bet to be at a +3% advantage then a 1/2 Kelly bet ramp would mean a bankroll of about $5500. If so, then a 1/2 Kelly bet ramp might look like this:
Edge Count 1H 2H
<.5% <2 5 --
.5% 2 10 10
1.0% 3 20 15
1.5% 4 30 20
2.0% 5 40 30
2.5% 6 50 35
3.0% 7 60 45

That gives you a 1-12 bet spread on 1 hand and betting Red, rather than a mix of red and white, I'm guessing will attract less attention and is a whole lot easier for you and the dealers.

Those that actually know what they are talking about can correct my undoubted errors.

I agree with Dhays...this would be a great game! Where is it? I also agree that $5 increments would be easier.

I am also pretty inexperienced. I started counting about 6 months ago. I use Hi/Lo +Ill 18.

To me your bet ramp looks pretty good. The house edge for those rules is about 0.34% Maybe a bit worse since penetration isn't all that great. a 1-12 spread is usually fine to beat a 6D game. 1-15 would be better, and 1-20 would give you a nice advantage if you can do it without getting 86'd.

Here is what my bet ramp would look like if I were playing this game:

TC Bet
-1 $3
0 5
+1 10
+2 20
+3 30
+4 40
+5 50
+6 60

I would also maybe vary it a little depending on whether it was the 1st or 2nd half of the shoe. Maybe if it was early in the shoe, use one bet level lower than stated above. Also if it was heads up I might be more aggressive. Hope that helps...just another opinion really.

Dhays...you sound pretty similar to me based on your posts. I'd like to share info with you if you'd like. I'm making my first trip to Vegas this Thursday and it'll be my first time playing 2D. I'm pretty inexperienced so far, only low low stakes 6D games. Bankroll is $5000 and so far I've logged 200 hours. I'd like to hear any advice or experience you have.

Not sure where Zuul plays, but these games do exist in the remote regions of Northern Michigan. Ya,make sure to bring a heavy coat though,and snowshoes can't hurt eh?

Frenchman

I'm the wrong guy for advice as I've only been playing again for about 6 months. I used to play 30 years ago back in the day, but the environment is so different now.

My bankroll started out at $3500 and as of this morning it hit $8000 (I won $600 in three local casinos in about 2 hours). I'm also going to Vegas for the first time EVER next Thursday. I'll most likely be playing 6D and possibly some DD if I can find one with decent rules, not crowded, and a low enough minimum. My bankroll would need to be double what it is now to support playing at a $25 min table, but I might hail Mary it for this trip. Unfortunately, I can't spend all my time playing as I am going down with my wife.

Definitely let me know what you find when you get down there. I'd like to find some decent red-chip games. I love DD, but got banned from the one really good DD game in my area. So I'm making due with 6D and am starting to learn Spanish21 to give me more options and to hopefully take some of the heat off me in the local casinos.

Spend a few bucks on a subscription to Green Chip and your questions will are answered.

Going to LV this week? Best bets for decent red chip DD will be found Downtown at the E.C. and the Plaza. In the burbs, look for Station Casinos or the Rampart. There is not much red chip DD left on the Strip. Might try Circus Circus or the Riviera across the street.

Good cards....Frenchman

Sounds like I'll be making some trips up there this summer (hell no I will not go when it's snowy!) Since I'm moving to Detroit in 2 weeks. Can't play in Detroit/Windsor yet...limits are too high for me.

Dhays...I'd say you would be good for advice for me. Right now I only play tiny stakes....admittedly the bank is really $4000 from a pretty big loss the last 2 trips out. I'll let you know how Vegas goes. I've got the most recent CBJN so I'll stick to that while in Vegas. I'm only gonna play games that offer 0.46% house edge or better. I'll be playing only on the strip and downtown, so I'll let you know if there's any decent red chip games around.

Sounds like the Kewadin Casinos in the Upper Peninsula although they dont allow doubling on the split aces. Little River Casino in Manistee does though, but they do not offer surrender. You cant hit the split aces but you can, as they call, "buy another card" I asked the wizard of odds a few years back about this rule and he said it is slightly better than resplitting. I dont get up there much as I been tearing up MGM Detroits $50 6 decker. Good luck on the move and the weather is getting better.

As of 2 months ago it was the Kewadin casinos that offered "buy a card" on split Aces. Only allowed on 6D and not on their 2D pitch games though.

Frenchman