Counting down the deck speed.

Just a curious question. How fast is it possible to count down one deck of cards? I remember reading about several authors that claimed they could do it in 11 seconds, but is this just as fast as it gets? At first I found this to be incredible but after practicing this drill for an hour everyday (with 2-4 decks, and occasionally with one) I have gotten myself down to 13 seconds for one deck, 28 for 2, and 57 for 4. But I only flip over one card at a time, is this the fastest I can get while only flipping over one card? Is there an efficient way to flip over multiple cards at once without them flying all over the place? Thanks.

P.S. I know being able to count down a deck fast doesn't determine how good a counter you are, so this is just a curious question.

I could do hi-lo at 11 seconds for hi-lo but never got better than 16 using halves. With hi-lo you just have lots of cancel outs so you just don't actually count them. This makes it very good for table scans if you are Wonging. You don't count a hand with a face and a small card, you just pass over it. If you are using a multi-level count with a side count you still want to be at 25 seconds or less so that it can be almost second nature and no dealer is actually a test of your counting speed.

YOu should get a computer program to help you with the speed. YOu can designate whether to deal the cards 1,2,3 at a time, etc. It is good to practice with variety. My fastest times are dealing two at a time using hi-lo.

My question how do you do it?
When I have a single deck in my hand,
faces down,I take one card from the
top, turn it around, count it and put it beside
on the table,then the next one and so on.
Is this the way you do it?
IMHO the biggest problem is not to count very
fast,but to be very fast with your fingers.
Regards Rainer

I trained on a program called Glencoe. Setting it to display two cards at once and manually hitting the return key to flip the cards. When a hi and low appeares you just hit the return again without changing your count. The frequency of cancel outs is what makes it possible to count so fast with hi-lo.

Doing with an actual deck you don't flip the cards. YOu hold the deck in your hand with the faces of the cards up and thumb through them so you see several at once. It takes me 16 or 17 seconds with a physical deck.

It's impossible to flip over 52 cards in 13 seconds. What are you some kind of Houdini? These fastest card counting drills can only be performed using computer software.

Umm... there's no reason for me to make it up, besides I think a lot of pros can do it faster than my measely 13 seconds. I think I can actually count faster than I can turn the deck over, so my question wasn't so much as how people can count so fast, but how they can turn the cards over so fast? I think Ian Anderson and/or Stanford Wong and other authors have mentioned that they can do it that fast. I remember Kevin Lewis in Bring Down the House could do it in like 15 seconds before he even set foot in a real casino.

I doubt you have ever attempted this. Maybe you're here for measely academic reasons or something.

It is very difficult (if not impossible ) to flip 52 cards over this fast WITHOUT even concentrating on counting them. Your thinking many pros can flip a deck in less than 13 seconds is wrong. Besides it is not mandatory to count this fast in order to be a pro. Ok, maybe you're not lying ,just exagerating a hell of alot about being the fastest card flipper in the world.

I just picked up a deck to try that. I just thumbed through them all so I could clearly see each card, without counting. It took just about 9 seconds. I don't know why anyone is flipping cards. That's not the way you practice for speed. When you jump your bet at a double deck game and the pit boss walks over and counts the discard tray he does not flip the cards. He holds the deck face up and thumbs through them, fanning them out as you go through. That's how you do it.

If you verbalize each number you will also be much slower. If you scan 4 big cards it is -4, not -1,-2,-3,-4. If you see 2 big, 2 small, and a neutral among the next 5 cards you don't count at all, just thumb past them.

If someone is flipping the cards over one at a time you should certainly be able to count as fast as you can flip. The eye is actually quicker than the hand.

Thanks for the tip. I just tried it and it does seem much easier. I'm sure I can pick up the speed with some more practice. Hand also doesn't get as sore when I'm just trying to thumb through the cards as opposed to flipping them.

I think you're getting way off track DD'. Perhaps you should read the Lurker's post again and specificly understand what I'm talking about. This is no lecture of tricks and gadgets.

By the way,did you attempt to count the deck the way Lurker claims to be counting? I very much doubt you are one of the pros Lurker thinks who can(let me specify)count down 52 cards(flipping over each card) in less than a "measly" 13 seconds.

Let us not beat around the bush and get to the point.

he was also questioning, same as you, how it was possible to count so fast when it is nearly impossible to flip cards that fast. The times he was quoting is what he's read in books about others doing, not what he claimed to be doing himself. I'm simply giving an explanation of the method used to practice counting that will allow one to scan a deck in 9 seconds or so. It takes about 9 seconds to physically fan through a deck. Actual counting speed may vary from 11 or 12 seconds to 25 seconds. If it takes more than 25 seconds to count through a deck this way then the player is not really fluent enough to count in a casino with all the distractions.

I still believe that a computer program is best because it is difficult to hold more than one deck in your hand and fan through them this way. I used to most frequently drill having the computer deal through 3 decks. I use the manual control as opposed to automatic flipping because you need to blink every so often, which you can't do when the computer is on auto-deal and going very quickly.

Okay, here is how I do it. I hold the deck of cards in my hand, but hold the deck perpendicular to the face of the table, or slightly leaning foward, and holding the cards so that if I move my thumb ever so slightly the cards would fall down. This decreases the amount of time it takes for the cards to fall to the table I guess. Yes, I did this in 13 seconds once. But it's not like there's a world record on the line for how fast one can do this, so I don't see the big deal about it. I'm sure with some practice many people can easily get under 15 seconds too... and I've been doing this exercise for an hour or two for the past 2-3 months.

As for the other methods, I like the one where you thumb through the deck best and I'm currently working on that. I don't like using computer simulations because I prefer looking at real cards for realistic simulation effects.

You are still doing it wrong. You hold the deck the entire time. Have you never had a pit critter come up and count a discard tray when you jump a bet? Do it exactly the way they do it.

Some computer programs will allow you to set for variable speed and variable numbers of cards shown. The lack of a clear rhythm is good practice for the casino, especially for pitch games. This is something that is very difficult to properly simulate using real cards unless you have someone else control how they are shown.

I also like to lay out 8-12 cards face up with my eyes closed or my head turned. Then I quickly glance at the table and turn away in a smooth motion to see if I can get the count. Great practice for table scanning/wonging.

Alright, after thinking over some of the responses, this is what I have decided.

My original goal was just to find a way to practice counting faster since I apparently can figure out the count faster than I can turn the cards over now. So this computer program thing has certainly sparked my interest? what program is it and where can I get it?

As for my playing experience, I've only had 30 hours of actual casino play, the first 15-20 was a crash course on a cruise where I was playing the $5 min and getting a feel for bs, and then the last 10 I started counting a bit and used a 1-3 spread and was up 120 units (I know the spread's not enough and the win was just a lucky streak) That was all within a week of reading my first book on BJ. But it's been 7 months since then and I'm about to turn 21. For practice I do my drill about 20-30 times a day with 2-4 decks, followed by 5-10 rounds of yahoo blackjack. (also noticing the higher payoffs on split aces and I never double on more than 2 cards) I also do this drill where I deal the cards to myself exactly as people do in casino, but I play 8 hands at once and try to go through the rounds as fast as I can. Taking a couple of trips next month after I turn 21, will let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks for all the help again.

You're making things very obscure. In plain english Lurker says he can flip over 52 cards and keep an accurate count in 13 seconds. He then thinks pros can use the same technic and do this much quicker.

I have simply told him the reality of this technic and how it is impossble to achieve unless you have some of the fastest hands known to mankind.

DD you post some good stuff, but I must say, you also have unique ways of obscuring the issue and avoiding point blank questions. Have yout attempted to beat Lurkers claims of 1 deck(or even come close),how about flipping 2....maybe 3 or 4 decks..etc.?

Of course fanning the cards is much easier, but when trying to do this very quickly you are apt to make more mistakes by mistaking 4's for aces,cards sticking together, and so forth.

Alright, I'm planning on obtaining a green chip membership if I have a steady part-time income from playing BJ in the next year, so maybe I can show you at one of these meetings. I just really don't see what the big deal is since I am certain that there are guys on this board that can do it faster. Besides, I sort of agree with Reveremen, how fast one can perform this exercise doesn't necessarily correlate with how good at counting one is.

it would be a great set of books and would cost hundreds of dollars. Just join. It'll be worth your while. You will learn and make valuable contacts for less that it costs to buy a couple of good books. It is a positive ev bet.

A few thoughts:

1. Whether flipping or fanning thru the cards, start with one-at-a-time, then do 2 at a time, 3, 4, etc. Dealers almost *never* look at the each card, but recognize familiar patterns. You need to learn how to "take it with a grain of gestalt."

2. To backcount from a distance, a useful skill is to recognize the card *without* reading one of its corners. Practice looking at the top 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 of each card. After a while it gets easier.

3. Using a one-level count is smart, because often the cards cancel each other out (for example, K+4 = 0) and you'll learn to ignore those combinations. Further, any 2 cards can only be worth {-2, -1, 0, +1, or +2} points -- a total of 5 possibilities.

I usedta play the level-3 Uston APC, where *only* the 5 will cancel a Ten card, and there were cards counted as -1, 0, +1, +2 to consider, too. Two cards could add up to {-6, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, +4, +5, or +6 points} -- *12* possibilities!, so you had to practice recognizing *many* combinations. Lotsa people worked hard to to instantly evaluate the 2 or more cards in a hand. It's very doable. You might as well have a guy put a jack hammer to your head, however, compared to the difficulty of using a single-level count.

My 2 (+1) cents.