Challenge to LVBear and others

You love to smear me with accusations of being a "casino employee". Well put your money where your big mouths are. Any of you care to put up $10,000 against my $10,000? A wager that I am NOT in any way connected to a casino in any capacity. You're "advantage players", and you're so sure that I work for a casino (or at least act like it to suit your own agenda), so come and get the easy money. We'll let Stanford Wong hold the money, and when I show you how wrong you are, I'll have twice as much bankroll to count cards with.

Who has the BALLS to put up the money? Any takers???

Well, it might not be the fact that they don't want to take on your wager. It's just that if they go by the kelly criterion and how convinced they are that you work for the casino they could be overbetting their bankroll. And we all know that's one of the most fatal mistakes an advantage player can make.

I have not said that you are a casino employee. I suspect that you are, or at least have strong ties to "the dark side" (friends or family?).

My discussion was primarily with sighguy, who has openly admitted to being a surveillance employee.

Though I disagree strongly with sighguy's views of the situation we discussed, he is polite, and reasonable, most of the time. He, and you, and anyone else, certainly is entitled to their opinion. I am entitled to mine.

You have posted about 20 messages in the last two days, some of them hostile. I don't recall ever seeing your handle before. I don't know who you are, and don't care who you are. It appears that you are here only to stir up trouble. I don't want to become involved in your trouble.

If I offended you, I apologize. I certainly have no information about you to prove you are a casino employee, nor do I care. My observations and comments are based entirely on your posts, and your apparent hostile attitude towards someone who was able to win a significant amount of money because of the stupidity, negligence, and/or incompetence of casino employees or their agents in misprogramming a slot machine.

Hopefully this concludes the matter.

>I have not said that you are a casino employee. I suspect that you are, or at least have strong ties to "the dark side" (friends or family?).

I have ZERO ties or any family members or friends or sexual partners who have anything to do with the casino industry. It's easy to speculate on the internet but when it comes time to put your money where your big MOUTH is you crawl under a rock.

>My observations and comments are based entirely on your posts, and your apparent hostile attitude towards someone who was able to win a significant amount of money

At first I merely stated my opinion about the matter. The hostility only came when trolls like SOTSOG jumped in with their baseless speculation. I prefer to gamble with as few "gaming impurities" as I can... a pure counter. Counting is absolutely legal and moral and that is the way I choose to conduct myself. I've been around this forum for a while (used a different nick before the board was password protected) and it seems that whenever someone has an unpopular opinion here comes sotsog the troll and his pals to jump in with the flames and accusations. All you got to do is look at the crap a guy like John May has to put up with here just for posting his opinions.

If you disagree with me... fine. But don't make up wild accusations and insults just to denigrate the poster making that opinion. Debate him in a civil manner, if you are capable of doing so.

How about this? I will give you $10,000 just to keep your tired comments off the internet.

Makes me wish Frank Stanton was still around.....

Sure let's all have a forum and an internet where everyone agrees with the Party Line, and where all dissenters are exterminated. Sieg Heil Scobee!

and you call me Hitler.

Now that's rich. I can see what an ass-et you are going to be around here. A real strong sense of humor.

I didn't compare you to Hitler. I compared you to the run of the mill nazi who only wants to see HIS point of view shown to the world. I may disagree with a lot of the posters here over this issue but I sure as hell ain't going to tell them to shut up or go away because of it. I WANT to see what others have to say... that is how one becomes EDUCATED. And they should want to see the (sometimes unpopular) opinions of others. A spirited debate allows people to choose what point of view they believe is right, while stifling such debate leads to brainwashed masses.

You mention Frank Stanton... hell I'm even interested in what HE has to say... because I am intellegent enough to dismiss much of it. But just because he's unpopular doesn't mean he should be locked in a rubber room somewhere. The more viewpoints you allow yourself to hear, the more your intellect is enriched.

Democracy and debate works in the political arena... why shouldn't it work here?

how often you find it necessary to deny that you have said something?
You will notice, with increasing frequency, how often this has not escaped others on this page. But be of good cheer, as you can always explain such things by reference to the collective ignorance of others.

THIS is a civilized BOARD where opinions are accepted at face value. BUT this group expects your OPINIONS to be backed up with FACT. Those with DISSENTING opinions are welcomed EXCEPT when they are just TROLLING attemping to STIR things up. THIS type of TROLL made the free pages SO unbearable that THEY were REMOVED and eventually REPLACED with this SINGLE board. You SIR are a pest. I'm quite SURE you could be a PEST on any BOARD about any SUBJECT. How about KNITTING?

Hip HOP

At least when Frank used to post, some of it made sense, this red bored is unbelievable. Everyone is a lier whom he would like to see get beaten up. Personally I think he is pi**ed because he came on the baord for a day, thought he was a counter and went and dropped $10 at Binion's asked for RFB and was laughed out of downtown. Subsequently he trolls the baord taking out his frustration on others. Personally I look forward to his rants and cant wait for the next one.

He does represent the truth of how the Casino establishment does business. The sad fact is that he has brought a lot of truth of how greedy the casinos are and the fact that the gambling they offer could be viewed as a fraud to steal money from th unsuspecting public. I view gambling the same as playing the stock market. AT least when fraud is commited in the stock market sometimes the ceo's go to jail! The casino "evil" empire may have had the good fellows removed and instead brought in the greedy boys instead. The fruad is that they are offering basically a business deal that you are to inevst money to try and double it. The only problem is that in the legitimate business world you have a chance to make a profit. The game they offer is a fraud that it really takes your money...and they call it entertainment.

If you want my God's honest opinion of casinos, I think they should all be OUTLAWED. Casinos are a scourge upon America. I can always find a wager at a sports book or a race track without having to deal with the scummy casinos... too bad most of you can't. So go back to your casinos, scam them to your hearts content, get assaulted and your rights violated, and then come whining to the internet about how life ain't fair. Because it ain't. I'll deal with reality while you all can deal with what you wish could be.

By the way, Doug Grant is right.

Anyone who wishes all casinos were outlawed and agrees with doogie is not a card counter. I dont have a clue what your intentions are, but it is obvious you have little or no experience of card counting in actual casinos.

99.99% percent of card counters do not get their rights violated and assaulted. I been at the tables all over the country for years and have never been assaulted or 86ed. Of course only the dumbasses will get aggressive,mouthy and whine trying in vain to provoke a disturbance at a casino. I call them wanna bees.

A pro cheat is a far cry from a pro card counter. Most casinos know this. Therefore one who literally cheats(at any game) is the one who will likely be taken to the backroom. There is far too much twisting interpetation from posters reading articles who assume blackjack card counters often get assaulted and backroomed. This is Bullshit. Posters are lumping us into this category of cheats. This creates an internet gossip of rumors about card counters getting beat up all the time. You are in fact the one claiming and whining about this nonsense,not us.

>Anyone who wishes all casinos were outlawed and agrees with doogie is not a card counter.

I count cards BECAUSE I hate casinos so much. You HAVE to hate casinos to be motivated to beat them. And my agreement with Doug Grant... that card counting is virtually impossible in real life casinos... is the truth, despite what book sellers will have you believe. See I live in REALITY not 1978 where a Ken Uston can rape a casino almost at will. Counters have to deal with facial recognition, 3+ decks cut off an 8 deck shoe, automatic shufflers, shitty rules, cigarette smoke, crooked Indians, and then have to deal with being literally chased back to your motel room by the Biloxi Police (which happened to me once). You can fantasize all you want about being the next Big Player, but I find it a hell of a lot easier nowadays (and less hazardous to my health) to bet on sports and horses than to juggle 300 index numbers (yes I use approximately that many when playing) in my head while keeping one eye on the pit boss and the other eye on security. Why do you think Stanford Wong himself is branching into sports betting?????

I can live without casinos. If they went out of business tomorrow I'll still make money. Maybe you hole carders and slot scammers can't. That's not my problem.

>99.99% percent of card counters do not get their rights violated and assaulted. I been at the tables all over the country for years and have never been assaulted or 86ed.

Really I wish you guys would make up your mind. In one post you guys say that I'll be backroomed and strip searched for card counting and how I should support a slot scammer because it happened to him, then in the next post you say that I have nothing to worry about. Which one is it? Or does it change according to what tactic you want to use at the time to discredit me?

>A pro cheat is a far cry from a pro card counter.

Which was my WHOLE POINT RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING!!! My indignation stemmed from people calling some guy who takes advantage of a mismarked slot machine an "advantage player"... because even a dope like Frank Stanton can find, and make money playing a $1 slot that pays off at a $100 machine rate. Would that make Frank Stanton an "advantage player"? Advantage player, my ass.

>Posters are lumping us into this category of cheats.

ROFLMAO!!! It was the Las Vegas Review Journal article that compared a slot scammer with a card counter by calling him an "advantage player". Advantage player my ass.

>This creates an internet gossip of rumors about card counters getting beat up all the time.

IT WASN'T ME MAKING THAT CLAIM!!! It was your buddies here telling me "you're a card counter so one day it will happen to you yada yada yada" that said that!!! Make up your minds people.

Some people can handle disagreement with them and some can't. It's time to get over it, Red. If you don't want to take advantage of casino mistakes, then don't. If you think card counting is no longer a viable way to make money, then don't count cards. If you happen across a slot machine that is paying out bigger jackpots than it should, then don't play the damn thing.

Getting the red ass and claiming that people deserved to get beat up because they played a perfectly legal game the casino offered is not going to win you friends on this board. Now if you don't want any friends on this board, perhaps you can find another one that might tolerate your childish tirades.

By the way, I don't think the "guys" on this board had a meeting to discuss how they were going to respond to your posts. It's a collection of individuals, all with a different point of view.

>Getting the red ass and claiming that people deserved to get beat up because they played a perfectly legal game the casino offered is not going to win you friends on this board.

I'm going to drop it, because apparently you can't read either.

These are your words, taken from your posts over the last few days:

"He is a THIEF who deserved to be arrested, as much as someone who took advantage of a defective ATM machine. He got exactly what he deserved."

"The guy was a thief and deserved what he got."

"The party that thinks it has a "licence to steal" here is the thief who took advantage of an obvious mistake and got what he had coming to him when he got caught."

"Many of you are just as bad as the casinos. Thieves looking to hustle whatever scummy angle you can find. And then get your ass kicked when you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar."

"Yeah he got treated a little rough but that's the price one pays for messing with the casino's bottom line."

"I must say... that I've never seen a bunch who DESERVE to get the crap beat out of them by a casino security guard than the ones in this forum!"

"So go back to your casinos, scam them to your hearts content, get assaulted and your rights violated, and then come whining to the internet about how life ain't fair."

Perhaps you should work on your short-term memory retention.

Practically every one of your posts contains hostility, anger, threats, insults and defenses against imagined slights upon your character, yet your writing style indicates education and that you are an adult. So what's your problem? You don't have to "toe the party line" to be an accepted poster here, and disagreements don't need to be expressed in the basest emotional level, but instead can debated intelligently.

As you seem to be new to the board, you should realize that previous malcontents who concentrated on disrupted bj21 posted pretty much on the same lines as you seem to be taking. I suggest you read the "Before you post" section and follow the guidelines. If someone attacks you, respond with the facts and leave it at that.

Wally