Good Condition, Spare Batteries, Everything Included,
Price US$2900
See Website below for any info
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Cheers
Does it come with the 1 to 10 in the state prison ?? It should be known that in most states, you are risking felony charges. Is it worth it ? An advantaged player with aquired skills does not have to stoop that low.
Casey was a bootleg version of Keith Taft's original computers. As I recall Taft's computers were called George and David and when Goldberg stole the plans he started marketing them under the name Casey. It would be funny if someone was now bootlegging his old stuff.
Let's see now . . .
An asking price of nearly $3,000 for a computer utilizing 80's technology and having considerably less computing power than the earliest Palm Pilots.
The use of which is illegal nearly everywhere and a felony in most states with casinos.
There are documented cases of it shorting out and burning the user.
It would be of marginal effectiveness in today's poorly penetrated games.
I wonder if the seller is based in Nigeria?
I think I'll pass.
In the latest issue of BJF there is an interview with Tommy Hyland. He mentions a "Rats Cohen" as somebody he wished he never meant. It goes into enough detail that I swear it is a person I know as Steve Goldberg. Can you read this article and confirm or deny if this is the Goldberg you know?
Actually there are many states where they are not illegal. If you are caught using them in those states you will be backed off and have your picture spread around depending on the casino. If you are using one and someone asks to see your shoes just simply refuse because if you are not breaking any law they will have a tough time detaining you and they will just back you off. All they eye would show would be you playing blackjack making mathematically correct deviations from basic stategy that any counting system that was humanly possible wouldn't tell you to do(A good reason to back you off, but still nothing illegal about it). It would be pretty easy for a red chip player to be able to get away with one for a long time as long as he didn't make huge bet spreads and he was able to pocket enough chips to appear to be a losing player. One of the perks of the computer is that your spread doesn't have to be as large. On the downside a new computer cost around $4,000 new. It also takes alot of practice to be able to input every cards value using your feet at casino speed while receiving info back as to your bet and the play of your hand. Betting red it is going to take a while to get your investment back...It would be my suggestion to not use a computer unless you have a ton of time on your hands and a sizeable bank roll. Using the skills you already have should be enough for any part time player which most of us are. Anyone who wants to spend the money and practice time mastering such a device I say Good Luck.
Blackjack Hustler, I'm just curious about the states which don't consider it a crime be it felony or misdemeanor. My question is directed towards states which have casino gambling within their jurisdiction, and not those on Indian casinos on reservations within their borders. Thank you for helping to clear this up for me. Hit 'em hard, The Side
PS: Starless, You can add New Jersey to your list also. They have both misdemeanor and felony statutes regarding this type of thing.
BJhustler said:
>>>If you are using one and someone asks to see your shoes just simply refuse because if you are not breaking any law they will have a tough time detaining you and they will just back you off. All they eye would show would be you playing blackjack making mathematically correct deviations from basic stategy that any counting system that was humanly possible wouldn't tell you to do(A good reason to back you off, but still nothing illegal about it).<<<
I'll disagree, assuming that the computer can keep track of every individual card and play accordingly. For example, almost every mental count system lump 4s and 6s in the same group (point value). In the instance where one is considering hitting 16, there's a big difference between them however. The computer keeps separate track of those and plays accordingly. There would be numerous such situations where the computer's play would differ from the mental card-counter. The computer will also have one making some very strange plays such as hitting hard 17, which a human counter never would. The problem is that if the casino's cc catcher software is also programmed to identify such play, they will be able to tell that one is using such a computer. I'm not sure if the casino counter catcher software is programmed to recognize and detect such perfect play, but it would not be that difficult to do so.
I am saying that the computer will tell you to do things such as double down on 12 or hit 17 or split 3's into a ten. These "misplays" may be good for cover unless the eye is running software which would detect a computer. It is mentioned in Million Dollar Blackjack that comparing a mental counter and a computer was like night and day because the computer will pick out the best possible play which may look like a total misplay to even the most experienced counter. Now the question would be how fast does the pit call the eye and how fast does the eye decide to use software to determine if you have the help of a computer. This is why I always play 6 deck games with good pen. The pit is less concerned over these games as they are with there 1 or 2 deck games. Pits are tought that counters play those games but avoid 6 deck games. About the computer i am saying if you decide to use one just use common sense and don't get too greedy. The eye has a ton of responsibility in casinos besides just watching blackjack. Often they are way understaffed and can't be to concerned with players aon 6 deck games betting less than 50-100 dollars. Of course you have to remember that the larger the casino the easier it is to be just another face. In a small casino it is hard not to be watched by the pit because $50 dollar bets are high rollers for them. There are so many variables but for the most part if people were to use common sense and if they were to relize not to push the siuation when they are getting heat everyone would be ok
Go to the website www.casey-computer.com
It will have the states it is illegal in in the faq section.
Another thing to remember is that many laws are vague and may not stand up in court. you have to look at laws individually. It maybe illegal to use an electronic device to effect the outcome of a games, but is the computer effecting the game? I would say the cards are going to come out in the same order whether you have the computer or not, so it is not effecting anything as far as the game. A good book to oreder is Blackjack and the Law about that subject. I would have to say that anyone arrested for possesing a computer in a state which doesn't have very specific laws against there use would be ok...It is just another reason not to make outrageous plays that only a computer could make....Maybe only make deviations that the average bad player would make....Remember i am not saying this device should be used nor do I use one myself but they do exist whether we use them or not.
I'll disagree, assuming that the computer can keep track of every individual card and play accordingly. For example, almost every mental count system lump 4s and 6s in the same group (point value). In the instance where one is considering hitting 16, there's a big difference between them however. The computer keeps separate track of those and plays accordingly. There would be numerous such situations where the computer's play would differ from the mental card-counter. The computer will also have one making some very strange plays such as hitting hard 17, which a human counter never would.
The information you give is correct if you are talking about a single deck game or game with 90+% penetration. In a shoe game with 75% penetration this info is almost useless.
The games they were playing in Million Dollar BJ were single deck.
This computer appears to be being sold by a George Farlow of Alhambra, CA. Try 626-284-5051.
Pro21 responded:
>>>The information you give is correct if you are talking about a single deck game or game with 90+% penetration. In a shoe game with 75% penetration this info (computer play) is almost useless.
The games they were playing in Million Dollar BJ were single deck.<<<
"Million dollar blackjack" by Uston is now 21 years old, and Uston's story is even older. Things were different then and good single deck games were plentiful so of course they preferred them over shoe games. (How I remember those good old days!)
Just as the shoe games can be beat using wider spreads today using cerebral card counting, the same certainly applies to computer play as well.
PS: bj hustler, we do agree after all. :)
Blackjack Hustler, I realize that you are no doubt just repeating what you have read. We all do that sometimes. But just to shed a little more light on the subject of Casey's legality I found this in the "New Jersey Permanent Statutes":
"5:12-113.1. Use of certain devices in playing game, disorderly persons offense
46. A person commits a disorderly persons offense if, in playing a game in a licensed casino or simulcasting facility, the person uses, or assists another in the use of, an electronic, electrical or mechanical device which is designed, constructed, or programmed specifically for use in obtaining an advantage at playing any game in a licensed casino or simulcasting facility. A device used by any person in violation of this section shall be subject to forfeiture pursuant to the provisions of N.J.S.2C:64-1 et seq."
This does not appear to be vague at all. It says that one cannot use a device designed to obtain an advantage at any game in a NJ casino. No mention is made of "except if the same advantage can be achieved by the accused own brain power." At the very least one can expect to forfeit the "device" which in this case is a $4,000.00 Casey computer. Sentencing could include the following:
"2C:43-8. Sentence of imprisonment for disorderly persons offenses and petty disorderly persons offenses
A person who has been convicted of a disorderly persons offense or a petty disorderly persons offense may be sentenced to imprisonment for a definite term which shall be fixed by the court and shall not exceed 6 months in the case of a disorderly persons offense or 30 days in the case of a petty disorderly persons offense."
New Jersey appears to define crime as an offense which carries a possible penalty of more than six months. So in the legal sense using Casey to gain an advantage would not be a crime. Crime or not the user of Casey could be looking at jail time. A zealous prosecutor might however try to make the case that Casey is a "cheating device" and in that case it would be a crime. This is very doubtful but one never knows when the authorities will decide they need to make a "good example" of someone.
It appears as though when the purveyors of Casey make the claim that it's use is only a "crime" in four states that they are technically telling the truth. They are not however acting in their customers best interest to make is seem as though those are the only four states where someone can use their device with impunity. I'd recommend extreme caution when dealing with anyone who would use this sort of advertising and possibly expose their customers to incarceration. That is a despicable way to earn a living. If they'd mislead one on this, I'd also be very suspicious of any other claims they might make. Hit 'em hard, The Side
Of course the computer can win against a shoe, but the question is -- how much better is it than regular counting. Take a standard strip game 6 deck with 75% penetration and run some sims. Run one with the computer using its perfect play and compare it to someone using the hi lo with the same bet spread and using the inex numbers from -1 to +6. The computer will win less than 10% more per hour.
So is it worth spending a few thousand for the equipment, spending a couple hundred hours learning to use it, dealing with the busted wires, the switches that wear out, the soldering iron you left on back in the room that burned holes in your suitcase, and oh yes, the chance that you may be arrested and have to defend a lawsuit? So, to that red chip better who can now have a win rate of $11 per hour instead of $10, is it worth it? You will have to decide that for yourself.
BTW - Ken Uston's first computer bank lost money -- and they were playing single deck.
I am not a proponent of computers used by 21 players. I have never used one in play myself nor do I feel that they would be worth the risk or hassle.
I'm certainly no expert here, but the sim programs that I'm aware of do not allow for perfect computer play. In such play, each 6 that was surplus in the shoe would be positive (towards hitting) if you had 15 and obviously change to a negative value if you held 16.
I'm curious which sim programs provide for such perfect play?
BTW, One could set such a sim up themselves with the info from Griffin's old but great classic "Theory of blackjack".
