Card Counting in Vegas Today

Hi. I've never been to vegas but I am planning a trip and I was just wondering if it is still possible to count cards in some casinos there and if so, which ones. I hear so much about casino's counter measures and csm's and it's got me wondering if it's even possible to count cards in vegas casino's anymore. I pray that it is. I have a few casinos near me but they all use csm's. I take a small amount of cash and play using basic strategy but mostly it's really only to practice my counting in a casino environment, even though it doesnt help in the game Im actually playing.

It's clear by websites and message boards like this that card counting is still practiced so I get the impression that you can still find places to do it but as I said I am planning a trip to vegas and I hope someone here can clue me in to the card counting situations down there. Thanks to anyone that can help me out.

It is possible to count cards in every casino in Las Vegas. They are all vulnerable to some extent. The problem will be finding casinos where the game is good enough to bother doing it. Many games simply don't offer a good enough win rate for traditional card counters. The few that do are usually watched fairly closely.

The good games are out there, but their playability will depend on your unit size, bet spread, act, and skill level. Your playing style will determine which casinos will tolerate your action.

-Sonny-

Any idea where the "good games" are best found? Are there any casinos you can think of that I should avoid or some that I should definately visit? I'd also appreciate any advice on which counting system I should master for my trip. Like I said Ive never been there so I dont know much about the number of decks that are used and other conditions. Im not a high roller, if that helps with any advice you could give.
Thanks.

If you are planning to take a single trip to Las Vegas with no plans for future visits anytime soon, I would suggest that learning to count isn't worth it. The variance in card counting is such that the likelihood of winning any serious money in one trip is minimal, and it takes a lot of time and practice to master a card counting system. One trip probably isn't worth the effort. From your first post, you said you had been practicing your counting with the CSM games in your locale. What system have you been practicing? If you already are practicing a system, then I would suggest that's the one you use if you insist on counting.

I have just been using the basic hi-lo method. I am not practicing my counting just for one trip but this is one trip I know im going to make and I just want to make sure I am prepared. I've heard that for some conditions different systems are better like an unbalanced system of some kind.
Im not expecting to get rich or anything from this trip, Id be happy if the trip payed for itself.
I should have clarifies, I am not going on the trip for the sake of counting. Counting or not I would still make the trip. I just turned 21 so it's gotta be done. But if I could count successfully then there would be many trips in the future. While I ramble, is there any way at all to find a mentor or something or is it usually self-taught?

Hi-Lo is fine. Keep practicing it. There isn't a single system out there that someone won't quibble with, but when counting afficianados get together to discuss the merits of various systems, it sometimes becomes like medieval monks arguing over how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle. The key is to master a system that is comfortable for you and let the quibblers spend their time debating while you are getting the money.

Most of the counters I know are self-taught. If hi-lo is the way you wish to go, I'd suggest that you purchase my book (yes, blatant self-promotion here), Bootlegger's 200-Proof Blackjack, which can be bought on this site, and Wong's Professional Blackjack. I would also suggest that you get some decent blackjack software for practicing purposes. I'd recommend QFIT's Casino Verite.

Thanks for the help. I'm not too familiar with any casino other than the two near me. Would they, in Vegas, ever have it so you cant see how many decks are left in the shoe so that you couldnt calculate the TC or anything like that?

As a general rule, both the shoe and the discard tray are uncovered in Las Vegas casinos. As with just about all such rules, there may be exceptions, but they will be rare.

Thanks. I really appreciate your guys help.

you wanna see how many cards are in the discard tray in order to calculate TC, not in the shoe. If you play with, say, 6 decks and you see 2 decks are in the discard tray, then you know that there are 4 decks left to be played. BTW, I know that Flamingo covers their 8 decker( they also use mind play), or did when I played it the last time- new year's eve. (great cut, only about 3/4 of a deck cut off.

I've never seen a table with mindplay, how would you identify it or is it obvious? Also, a noob question, how does the cut work and in what way does that affect your counting or how do you adjust your counting? Noob here, only played on table with csm, bet very little money, just for practice.

you recognize mind-play table(I do mind) that dealer inserts cards after these are shuffled and cut by a player into a 'rubber hole' which is where the discard tray is supposed to be, leaves them there for few seconds (for computer to scan them) and only then puts them into the shoe. But you play for lower stakes, right? so I wouldn't worry much. Your second question: well, ther have been books written on the effect of penetration. In short, the deeper the cut, the more predictable the game is. For example, your advantage with 10 extra high cards with 1 deck left is twice as big as it would be with 10 extra high cards with 2 decks left( which gives us TC= RC/decks remaining, 10:2=5, in first instance it is 10:1=10)

Thank you. As I said I've only played on CSM tables so I dont really know what the cut and shuffle process is like. Any chance you could clue me in?

You can card count anywhere just maintain a 1 to 8 (maximum) unit spread. Say $10.00 to $75.00 or $80.00. It's when that bet starts exceeding the $100.00 mark (Black in Action)that most casinos start to pay more attention to you. Then you have to worry about discuising your play or your appearance from place to place... :)