Does anyone know where I can find a basic strategy chart that is based on count, such as TC of: +2, +4, +6, -2, -4, -6 ? I want to compare the changes to the play strategy as the count changes. I want to show this to a friend. Perhaps somebody ran the respective sims for each of those counts and created a chart. If so, I want to see it. I need it specific to AO2.
I don't have code to do this now but I could probably gin something up for you in not too much time.
What rules do you want? I'll need any variations from this list:
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/screenshots/rulesmenu.png
This list gets cut off at the bottom. The rest that I need are:
Resplit to # of hands?
Resplit aces? yes/no
Hit split aces? yes/no
Also, what is AO2? I tried to look it up and I found a bunch of references to it (looks like it's a card counting system) but I couldn't find the system itself. Is there another name for it that would make it easier to look up?
6D game, H 17, BJ pays 3 to 2, no sur, DOA 2 cards, DAS, dealer has hole card, resplit to total of 4 hands, 1 card draw on split aces.
Advanced Omega II (AO2), created by Bryce Carlson.
Any help will be appreciated.
The term Basic Strategy is defined as the optimal play under the assumption of normal card distribution.
What you are looking for are charts for an Adapted Strategy.
If you have the index numbers you can easily derive the strategy charts you have in mind.
Francis Salmon
Okay, I had to write some new code to generate these and it took a while to do the simulations but here are the results:
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/minus_6.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/minus_4.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/minus_2.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/zero.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/plus_2.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/plus_4.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/plus_6.html
If you open these pages in different tabs of one browser window, then you can probably use keyboard shortcuts to switch between them and easily see which decisions change as the count increases/decreases.
(On a Mac, with Chrome, you can switch between browser tabs by pressing Command and a number key.)
Ignore the statement on the +6 page where it says insurance is not recommended... it is recommended for the white cells.
Enjoy! Let me know if you have any questions.
Wow! Thanks. That's really cool and I like the way I can compare them side by side. However, I cannot understand why in the +6 chart all the cells on the far right in the ace column are not advising to take insurance. The index number for insurance with AO2 is +6 regardless of what type hand the player has. 16 cells on the chart are not showing to take insurance. I don't understand why that is. Please advise. Your efforts are much appreciated.
Hi Francis. It's been a long time. Yes I agree with you. What do you suggest we call this type of chart? Perhaps "AO2 Count Index Strategy Chart"? Open for suggestions.
I noticed that a lot of those insurance vs. no-insurance EVs at +6 were very close. I re-ran the simulations with 10x the iterations and the EVs really are almost identical. Often off by less than 0.001.
Basically +6 is right at the very edge of where insurance becomes a good bet and practically speaking it doesn't really matter if you take it or not. But, might as well take it, if it makes it easier to remember that +6 is the tipping point.
>>I noticed that a lot of those insurance vs. no-insurance EVs at +6 were very close. I re-ran the simulations with 10x the iterations and the EVs really are almost identical. Often off by less than 0.001.
Sorry, I just realized that I might not be making myself clear. Basically what I'm saying is that it's just random chance whether or not those cells in the chart indicate insurance or not. Run the simulation again and the cells will almost certainly be different colors.
Count and Index sounds a bit redundant to me.I would call it "Count adapted Strategy Charts" or may be "AO2-Strategy Charts for various Count Levels".
Just for curiosity,Stealth. You have been away from this site quite a
while. Was this an absence from Blackjack in general and if yes for what reason?
Francis Salmon
My absence is due mostly to my general financial struggles as a result of the recession. BJ is a semi-pro sideline thing for me. I have had really no bank-roll to work with for about 7 years now. I still haven't much to work with yet. Though I'm confident that someday my ship will come in and I'll be back in the driver seat.
I'm assuming you ran the sims based on the basic Omega count system which is without considering the ace side count. Or you used the basic Omega with the respective count variations but considered aces at a count of zero. Would that be correct?
>>I'm assuming you ran the sims based on the basic Omega count system which is without considering the ace side count. Or you used the basic Omega with the respective count variations but considered aces at a count of zero. Would that be correct?
I found this page about AO2 which is what I used for my simulation:
http://www.countingedge.com/advanced-omega-ii.html
The page makes it sound like counting aces on the side is an optional thing and offers no insight about how such a count might be used.
Allow me to ask a sincere question.
Why do you use an advanced count like AO2 as opposed to a simpler level 1 count like Hi-Lo or even KO? I can understand the cost/benefit equation of a higher level count for someone playing huge amounts of hours at a higher bet level, but for a low bet level recreational player, I would usually recommend KO or Hi-Lo. Actually, I would recommend a level 1 count regardless, as it allows more focus to be placed on other areas, but that's a whole separate discussion.
Bear in mind that this question is coming from someone betting black chips for 200-300 hours a year using Hi-Lo, so I am a tad bit biased.
That's kind of what I assumed you did. You actually used the Basic Omega count system in the sims which is really the only way you could do it. The ace side count when used properly at a BJ table is generally for additional bet sizing calculation.
Any chance you could run us a couple more sims at +8 and +10? I think we start splitting face cards at +7 or +8. I need to get my book and freshen-up on the index numbers. My friend has my book.
I started with Hi-Lo back in 99. I had a friend using it also, but included a side-count of aces for betting purposes. I felt that he was on to something more valuable so I began to read and investigate the subject of ace side-count and even other systems. I decided that I wanted to include an ace side-count but it didn't seem sensible to count aces in the main and on the side also. I bought Carlson's book and at some point started making the switch. It wasn't all that difficult. It's so natural for me now that walking and chewing gum would be more of a chore.
>>Any chance you could run us a couple more sims at +8 and +10? I think we start splitting face cards at +7 or +8. I need to get my book and freshen-up on the index numbers. My friend has my book.
Sure:
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/plus_8.html
http://www.roamingtrek.com/blackjackx/misc/ao2/plus_10.html
Looks like you're right re: splitting 10s at +8.
I usually don't count aces but certain casinos offer additional betting options which can make a side count desirable.
I find it hard not to get mixed up with the main count even if I use two different languages.I know that Uston recommands counting with the feet and Carlson counts with his fingers under the table but I have a colleague who simply keeps two different figures in his head.
May I ask you which technique you use yourself?
Francis Salmon
I play the game with only the right hand. The left is used to count aces. Look at your open left hand as you read on. Not including the thumb, you have four fingers - each can represent the 4 aces in each deck to help you keep track based on the amount of decks you see in the discard tray. Given I play mostly 6D, I use up to 24 positions on my left hand by touching each with my thumb as each ace falls. I find it best if my thumb nail is a little on the long side so I can feel it better. As you look at your left hand, you can easily find 24 different positions. I choose to start with using the creases where my fingers bend. There are 12 of those. As more aces continue to fall, you move to your finger tips, little, ring, middle, pointer. Then go over the top to your nails - pointer, middle, ring, little. Then slide your thumb to the knuckle - little, ring, middle, pointer and just keep going. To sum it up, these are the positions in order starting with creases: 1 pointer, 2 middle, 3 ring, 4 little, 5 little, 6 ring, 7 middle, 8 pointer, 9 pointer, 10 middle, 11 ring, 12 little, 13 little, 14 ring, 15 middle, 16 pointer, 17 pointer, 18 middle, 19 ring, 20 little, 21 little, 22 ring, 23 middle, 24 pointer. With this process, you are not actually counting aces, you are simply moving to each position as each ace falls. You only need to figure the number up when basically nothing is occurring and before it's time to place your bet (sizing) in the circle.
