I've been studing the simple hi/lo count for quite some time now. Last night I thought I was ready to simply play Basic Strategy and retain the running count. However, that was not so as my brain kept freezing up during the middle of rounds. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to overcome this? It's not that I don't recognize the values it's the numbers that just keep getting stuck in my head.
Most of us thought we were ready for live casino play when we really weren't. Now you know what sort of speed you need and what distractions you will have to deal with, just go back to the kitchen table and keep practicing. Next time you will be better prepared. Eventually, it will be second nature.
If you still want specific advice, tell us what you're currently doing for practice and maybe we can suggest a few things.
Start the running count at 100 (to represent zero) and all postive numbers are over 100 (110 instead of plus 10) and vice versa for negative numbers (90 would be minus 10)
I got this tip from one of the message boards a few months ago, it is much easier for me to remember 110 instead of plus 10 (at least for me).
If you haven't bought Casino Verite software to practice with you are making a mistake, that also has helped my counting.
It happens. Don't stop practicing and remember to practice at home with distractions (wife talking, kids scampering about, radio & TV blairing, phone ringing and anything else you can think of). On my first trip I just stood and back counted to see if I could keep up. It was surprising how slow dealers really deal in shoe games. I was expecting much faster. It's different in 1D & 2D, but not too much if you can count down a deck in at least 30 seconds.
If you are just learning BS then try playing BS for a while without counting until it is second nature. The count can be alot to keep up with if you are also trying to figure out the correct BS play. Every book I have read says BS must be 2nd nature before learning to count. I took this advice and it made things much easier.
Good cards.
Actually I wrote up a post that gave all the specific practice drills I use. However my damn computer shut down and I was too lazy to rewrite the whole thing. Anyway here is what I do to practice and retain the count.
1) I do a single card countdown.
2) I play some blackjack with myself and 3 other pretend players. I focus on keeping the count and playing BS on all hands.
3) I deal 6 cards face up as fast as I can and then deal another 6 as fast as I can to pair them up. Ofcourse I try and count as fast as I deal. Sometimes I start with a postive RC of 15 to work with those numbers.
4) Lastly, I use the software Smart Cards and practice the count on it. There are many different patterns on this software. But they don't have a pattern that simulates exactly the real thing in Casinos.
These are the drills I spend most of my time doing. I do them well but going to the Casino has told me that I need more practice. So if you could give me any specific advice that would be great. Thanks
I very much am looking forward to ordering that before I get into serious play. I discussed this with some other members but I forgot where to order it. Thanks for the (100) suggestion though.
I've read Lawrence Revere's book many times and he could not stress anything more than knowing Basic Strategy like the back of your hand. So that is the first thing I mastered. I know BS for 4 or more decks stone cold.
As for the distractions I do usually turn the TV on and there are people around to talk with.
Furthermore, when I went in to the Casino thinking I could count I first stood back and watched to see if I could do it. And I did. However, I went to go seat at another table because I was looking for a 5 buck min. When I found it I was familiar with the dealer. She is probably the fastest dealer in the whole Casino and it was a full table. So I think I tested myself with some of the hardest conditions.
I think I need to work on speed and distractions. But if you have any specific advice that would be much appreciated.
It appears to me that you are getting in the proper practice. However, no matter how much you practice at home or on the computer, there is no substitute for playing real time in a real casino. The first time you do it can be quite intimidating. There are all the usual distractions that you knew to expect, like fellow players, chatty dealers, fast dealers, cocktail waitresses, screaming slot machines, rowdy craps players in the pit next to you and more. But there is also the internal stress of what you are doing. You may be fearful of being caught by the pit, you are going to be somewhat unsure of yourself and you are playing with real money. All of this adds up to a lot of distraction.
Think back to when you first learned how to drive a car. The first time behind the wheel of that two-ton monster powered by hundreds of horses, you were no doubt nervous and unsure of yourself as well. You probably made a lot of mistakes that first time out. It was time behind the wheel that eventually made you a decent driver. Today, you can probably cruise down the road at 70 mph, dodge the other cars, listen to the radio, and talk on the cell phone while correcting a bunch of noisy kids in the back seat (if you don't have kids yet, it will happen eventually), and you do it without giving it a second thought. As you do this, you literally have your life in your hands, as well as the lives of your passengers, and the other drivers and pedestrians who get in your range. If you can do all that, you can count cards in a casino. It just takes time behind the wheel.
Thanks for the advice. I understand exactly what you mean and I wish there was dollar minimum tables I could practice on when getting in real time play.
I think the next step I want to take is to order the Casino Verite and practice on that for awhile and maybe mix in some real play time in the Casino. Most likely I want to flat bet untill I feel I'm retaining not only the RC but the TC as well with ease. Then I will put into action a simple 3000 bankroll with a 1-12 BS and record my play over a few months (probably 3). If the expectation is achieved over that period of time then I will save up more money to mass a larger bankroll. That is kind of the general plan I have in mind. Again, thanks for the advice and experience I will achieve. On a side note I thinks Kids won't be in my life for a number of years to come. Still in my teens.
OK, here's some suggestions:
1) I do a single card countdown.
Often we don't count cards singly, but in pairs, threes or fours. This allows us to cancel out a +1 card and a -1 card (for example) rather than incrementing and then decrementing our count. Obviously this is easier with lower-level counts. You can try turning over multiple cards at once, or better still just thumb through the pack face-up while keeping the count. Another trick is to remove one or two cards from the deck and then work out what they could possibly be afterward.
Strive for accuracy as well as speed, but it won't matter in actual play if you are out by one or two occasionally.
2) I play some blackjack with myself and 3 other pretend players. I focus on keeping the count and playing BS on all hands.
Get some chips and practice betting and paying off the hands as well. You should always check that you have been paid off correctly - one missed payoff can wipe out your edge, and one extra payoff can greatly enhance it. ;-) Plus if things don't work out you'll be able to get a job as a dealer. :-/
4) Lastly, I use the software Smart Cards and practice the count on it. There are many different patterns on this software. But they don't have a pattern that simulates exactly the real thing in Casinos.
I haven't used Smart Cards, but like just about everyone else I recommend Casino Verite. You can get it at www.qfit.com. As well as simulating live play, it also includes special drills for sharpening many of the different skills you need as a counter.
Hope this helps.
Then I will put into action a simple 3000 bankroll with a 1-12 BS and record my play over a few months (probably 3).
$3000 may not be enough for this. Do you intend to play all or use some wonging strategy? Do you know the optimal betting ramp and ROR for your scenario? If not, post the rules for the game you will be playing and we can help.
If the expectation is achieved over that period of time then I will save up more money to mass a larger bankroll.
You've no reason to expect your results will be even close to your expectation after such a short period of play. You may be under-estimating the variance involved in counting. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but you need to be aware of the risks.
How do you get any live casino action if your still in your teens? And wow if could have got several thou' together for a BR in my teens.
Good point. I think you are very right with 3 months of play being too short. Standard Deviation could very well takes it toll on me and smash me to the floor.
As for my 3000 bankroll and betting spread. It would be a 5$ to $60 betting spread my max bet at a TC of plus 6. I'm following what the online BJ school has given me. However, my game hits a soft seventeen which in turn gives the house a .60 advantage over the player. (6 decks) I know how to incorporate this change in my betting strategy with bigger bankrolls. If you would like me to explain it I can.
In addition, Basic strategy for 6 Decks, double down on any two cards, split up to 4 hands, double after splits, split aces once, and dealer hits soft seventeen says you must double down on 11 vs Ace and you also should double on A7 vs 2.
Well, the legal age to gamble is 18. Now we all know that you must be 21 in Vegas due to alcohol on the floor but on Indian Reservations some of them don't. Thus, the legal age to gamble is 18. There are a few Casino's where I live that are 18.
Random fact: Did you know that Nevada with all its gaming lacks one multimillion game? The State lottery. Just thought I'd through that out there.
Thank you very much for the advice. Some of what you said I have incorporated. Such as flipping them over in two's to count the pairs or figuring out what the last two cards are that I haven't seen. As for Casino Verite I'm going to get right on top of that.
I almost forgot. I won't incorporate wonging into my playing strategy but I will leave all tables that hit a TC of M1. When I enter in the Casino I look for a table that is shuffling so I can quickly just sit down. Standing around and just watching a table untill its finished just isn't good cover.
As for my 3000 bankroll and betting spread. It would be a 5$ to $60 betting spread my max bet at a TC of plus 6. I'm following what the online BJ school has given me.
That's $5 @ TC<=1, $10 @ TC=2, $20 @ TC=3, $40@TC = 4, $50@TC = 5, $60 @ TC>=6. Assuming 4.5/6.0 penetration and wonging out below -1, your win rate is $5.95 per hour and your risk of ruin is 18.86%. (With $4000 it would be 10.82%. With $5000 it would be 6.20%.)
With your bankroll you could wong this game with a 1-6 spread: $10 @ +2, $20 @ +3, $30 @ +4, $40 @ +5, $60 @ >=+6 for a win rate of $7.20 per hour and a risk of ruin of 5.99%. You'd play about 15% of all hands.
In addition, Basic strategy for 6 Decks, double down on any two cards, split up to 4 hands, double after splits, split aces once, and dealer hits soft seventeen says you must double down on 11 vs Ace and you also should double on A7 vs 2.
Correct. You should also double A8 vs 6.
This is all very interesting. How did you come up with all the numbers of my risk of ruin and expectation. Do you have a certain type of software where you just enter in the numbers and it shows it for you?
Also what is an exceptable risk of ruin? I mean ofcourse that is up the player but what do you do? If I were to have say a $10,000 bankroll. What should my bet spread be? According to the online school I guess you risk of ruin will always be 18.86% no matter how big your bankroll and as long as you leave at all M1 TC. I also could figure out that betting spread as well.
If you could I would like to know what the expectation would be with a $10,000 bankroll. However, I would like you to choose the betting spread and apply it to a 4 deck cut out of 6 as well as the 4.5 cut. If this is too much just let me know. I don't want you to waste your time with a novice.
On a side note, I've never been to Vegas and I assume most 6 deck shoes place the cut card at 4.5?
Definately not. Generally, the larger your BR, the lower the ROR you will want. Given the numbers (risk of ruin) above, it might be wise to save up a few more K.
10k when your just legal is a great position (I was where you're at roughly one and a half, two years ago). If you don't have a part time job, get one (allow you to still enjoy yourself, and re-invest winnings).
Also remember to keep your expectation realistic.
To get figures (expectation, ROR etc), there's a website that has alot of BJ calculators on it. I can't remember the URL but maybe someone who does can put it up.
Buy a copy of "Blackjack Attack" by Don Schlesinger. Gives good examples of how bet spreads, Risk of Ruin, etc. is arrived at, and comparisons of different style of play.
Gives you a better understanding of what these numbers mean and how to use them. Next up would be a product called "CVSIM" which, you guessed it, you punch in your bankroll, rules, bet spread and it shows you your ROR and hourly profit, or suggests the optimal bet spread.
Also shows you why you should be seeking out games better than 4.5/6, (Yes, penetration often varys by dealer) and you can sometimes find 5/6 or even less. Also shows the power of wonging and staying away from those negative counts.
At $19.95, it is a good investment before you seriously risk any money at the table.
