Blackjack Secrets

Wonging/Backcounting Question:

Stanford Wong; Blackjack Secrets; Pg. 74:
"...subtlety is required, and watching the cards without playing is an art. ... When looking...keep walking as you are looking at the cards at various tables. Never take root and stare. ... Do not watch a second round at that same table, because your watching may be watched."

This raises a few questions:

1. How can one effectively spot/backcount/Wong (essentially the same thing) without "taking root" and standing behind the table and watching everyone play?

2. I notice at most 21 tables there are onlookers standing behind the players doing just that - staring. Doesn't seem to ever raise much, if any, attention. My contention is one could stand and watch for hours without raising any suspicions, and what a great way for the beginning AP to gain some live experience! Thoughts, comments on this?

3. For those who do Wong, backcount and/or spot, How do you go about successfully accomplishing this whilst mitigating raising any suspicion?

Thank you all in advance for any comments on this issue.

Ian

You won't need to stare for hours waiting for a positive count. On the other hand, I don't see too many people just watching people play. People come to a casino to play, not watch. Instead of wonging in, play from the beginning of a shoe and wong out in negative counts. This approach also needs subtlety, but not as much as wonging in.

The individual who first got me started in this was a partner from Strategic Investments. He said a great thing to do for practice is simply to Backcount and never play a single dollar.

He also said that by standing behind the table and just watching everyone play, keeping the count in my head, and being able to make the right decisions before the players is excellent practice. I was told this won't attract any attention since people often stand back and watch.

Personally I get great satisfaction from just standing there and taking it all in. Now if only my presence were more like a fly on the wall... I've had players and dealers encourage me to take a seat, but I always tell them my wife would kill me so I'll just enjoy their game.

What are thoughts on this?

Ian

the partner from Strategic Investments (which is what?) gave you terrible advice. Once you have basic strategy down pat and feel you know your counting system very well, find the lowest limit table there (but probably not over $10) and play. You will learn a lot faster and better.

If the casino is busy and there's a lot of people standing around you'll be unnoticed. However, if it's 7am and you and the guy playing are the only ones in the casino.... well you get the idea.

To backcount a table, you only need to be close enough to see the pips (not the index number of the card). This can usually be done from 8 to 10 feet away -- sometimes further. Also, you can backcount a table by spending only around 25% of the time looking at it. In between deals, you can be strolling away and wandering back, never stopping and taking root.

It's true, lots of customers stand behind a table innocently watching the action. That's not a problem. When one of those players then steps up, buys in and begins betting well over the table minimum, there's the problem!

Strategic Investments was the limited partnership formed by the MIT team for a short time in the 90's. It seems odd to me that someone from that team recommended backcounting and not playing as good pratice. From everything I have read and seen, that is not the way they practiced. Just watching a game does draw attention, not only because of the backcounting/wong in factor, but it's just not normal behavior to stand and watch. They may think you are up to something more devious such as a snatch and run.

I like to stroll by a table and look at the dealt cards. If I see a lot of small cards on the first round after the shuffle, I will grab a seat and play. Why just observe if there's an AO (advantage opportunity - hey ADMIN, is that a new acronym? Can I get a free BJ21.com coffee mug or something?) Especially if I see a lot of 5's. I no longer use the halves count but I know there's extra strength in it. So, even if the TC is only say >=0<1, but a lot of 5's were dealt, and I saw the first round or two (not mid-shoe entering with a lot of unseen cards), I'm getting a seat and playing. I can wong out after just a hand or two if the count doesn't creep up or at least hang near even. This is very easy to do.

If you have trouble with this, you may be trying to wong in to a (near)full table making it hard to count by just passing by. Actually, you don't and shouldn't even bother looking unless you are just getting a bit of "practice". More importantly, you would only look at a full table for informational purposes. For example, if you can see the cut and it's deep, observe the dealer and try to play him/her later when the table crowd thins.

If you live near a casino and want to check out a table, why not? Just stand there for a few rounds to practice your counting skill. You'll experience the same cocktail and ploppy buy in/color up interruptions as though playing. However, why would you need to do that more than, say twice, for about 5.32 minutes each time?

Do it once or twice, practice at home, scope out good conditions, run the numbers on your BR and start playing.

Good luck.

kewljason,

Your response to all this really intrigues me. I think it's not uncommon, at least from my observations, to have onlookers cheering on players and watching the game go on. This is true not only of 21 but also and especially for Craps and Roulette. Indeed, the individual from SI told me that once I'm great at counting leave my bankroll at home and go to the casino and backcount for a real test. When I'm not playing it really is great practice to do this. Have you tried it?

But this brings up my other question: If it is not normal behavior to stand and watch, and if you believe it could bring on unwanted attention, how do those who team play passively spot (without having sitting in and betting the minimum). Additionally and along the same lines, how does one properly Wong if they're not going to stand and watch for a time? Thanks again for helping with this.

Ian

BJ Mentor,

Sounds like you've got a lot of experience with this kind of thing and want you to know I really appreciate your reply. Thank you.

Ian

Agreed, you deserve some recognition :). You might also appreciate that AO in military jargon stands for Area of Operation. Seems to lend itself nicely to Advantage Opportunity for AP's such that AO's will also be our "Area of Operation."

Ian

I find that having a drink in your hand is a good thing. It makes you look more "touristy" when you are back-counting.

WaToiler,

That's a great idea. Anything that will make one look more casual should be conducive to pulling this off. Sometimes I'll just hang out with my wife behind a table since (1) couples fly extremely low on the radar of suspicion and (2) gives me someone to talk to and look like I'm casually enjoying things.

Any other tips/props that you can think of?

Ian

I once saw a guy playing at the table, and his standing girl friend was doing the counting and rubbing him on the back when required, it was so obvious from behind. I know of a few places that don't allow mid shoe entry.

while you're backconting-occasionally look at your watch,then you seem like you need to be leaving otr going to the bffet or whatever soon. look at the big screen tv if one is there and "watch the game." take out your wallet and count some money,looking like you're trying to work up the courage to sit and play. if a player takes a bad beat shake your heas left to right,shows you're really into the game,conversely try to look excited-smiling-when a player gets a blackjack. maybe spend a bit of time watching roulette or craps-or watching a blackjack table with a continual shuffler.
good luck.

1) If you're a smoker, light a cigarette and have a smoke.
2) Watch television. Many casinos have flat screens in their pit. Pretend to be interested in whatever is playing.
3) Pretend to read something. This could be a brochure from the front desk of the hotel, a show schedule, or a rule card from a carnival game.
4) If a slot machine is nearby, deposit a few bucks. You don't even have to take a spin, and can simply just hit the cashout button to get a printed ticket at most casinos. I would recommend taking one spin just so the amount on the ticket is not always a nice even number. Having a slot ticket with you at the table certainly won't hurt you in terms of cover.

Great advice! Looks like you and I are from the same neck of the woods...

Ian