bet size variations for 8 decks

Tough to find less than 8 decks these days I run minimum then at true 2 4to1, true3 8to1, and true 4 and up 12to1. Wanna know if this is enough to overcome the large amount of decks. I found Stanford Wongs books very helpful there are so many charts to access to attack what type of game or rules you find. But there isn't a chart to tell you what the minimum bet spread is for any amount of decks used eg.

T2 T3 T4and up
1deck 2to1 3to1 4to1
2decks ? ? ?
3decks ? ? ?
4decks ? ? ?
5decks ? ? ?
6decks ? ? ?
7decks ? ? ?
8decks 4to1 8to1 12to1

if you wong then 1-8 will cut it for 8 deck. If you white rabbit (start fresh shuffles and exit the shoe at a certain True Count (like -1 High-Low) then 1-16 or 1-20 is needed.

Obviously a game with good pen needs less spread.

typically for an 8 deck game I would not play it with a spread less than 20-1 and often spread 40-1 or even 60-1...and you know what...I usually have no problems, especially if I color up when the shoe is done.

You will need a high bankroll.

You will need a lot of patience.

You will need a spread of 16 to 1 to 32 to 1 de[pending on the rules.

You will need > 75% penetration, at minimum.

Besides the obvious disadvantages, an extra disadvantage of 8 deck play that a casual player might not realize, is that these games are often the low limit $5 or $10 games in a store. This means the tables are usually crowded, resulting in less hands per hour AND making both wonging in and wonging out more difficult. :(

On the flip side, I know of one place that has pretty good double deck game, but they watch it til the point that it is just not worth it to play. They offer a very mediocre 6 deck game with about 1.5 to maybe just a bit more 1.6 cut, which they watch much less closely and they offer a very low limit 8 deck game in which they cut a deck sometimes as little as 3/4 of a deck that you can basically do whatever you want. (within reason...lol) Of course the problem is the 8 deck game is red chip low limit and always crowded.

Best not to think of percentages for penetration. Best to think in terms of the amount of cards cutoff (i.e., that will be unseen) A six deck game with a 1.5 deck cut and an eight deck game with a 1.5 deck cut with the same rules and same betting scheme will have almost exactly the same hourly win rate and SCORE (only slightly less for eight deck).

I don't see why you need such a big spread if you are not playing many negative counts. I guess I am really talking 6 deck with good rules and good pen. I played the giant Indan casino in the northeast where to get an uncrowded virgin shoe with 6 deck, S17, LS, pen about 5.0/6.0, I had to play $100 min. I generally moved to a new table at about TC of minus 2 (sometimes lower if early in the shoe and sometimes I would wait it out if close to the end even if a little worse than minus 2) but I definitely steered clear of the vast majority of negative counts).

I generally kept it to a $100-500 spread with 2 x $500 at the really big counts (about >+6). I thought this was a really strong game. Am I wrong here?

jpb,

I simmed a 6D, S17, DAS, LS game with 5/6 pen for a HiLo counter playing with a B.S. player. The counter starts each shoe at the shuffle, and leaves (forcing a shuffle) whenever the TC falls to -2 or lower. His bet schedule is as follows, in units of $100:

 

TC Bet 

<2 1 

+2 2 

+3 3 

+4 4 

+5 5 

>5 2x5 

I suspect the swings in your game are huge at that spread/stakes...

Thanks a bunch to everyone for answers to my posts. I now feel more confident about counting machine shuffled shoe games, and although the bet spread recommended to beet an 8 deck game is to much for my bankroll to justify I will wong the shit out of it and when I have to play minimum i'll leave at -1 and starting at +2 go 4-1, 8-1,, and 12-1, and hope for the best good luck to all thanks again.

I still think it is easier to stay under the radar doing this than spreading 25-1000, plus based on your simulation, has higher win rate.