Best level 1 count?

Hey i recently am able to legaly gamble so been stocking up a bankroll and learning more about the game.

I bought some books on it to check it out and been reading the blackjack school so far. I got blackjack bluebook and blackjack for blood but not even gonna bother with the omega counts from blackjack for blood at the moment. Just gonna read for the other ideas in the book.

I live in southern CA so have a good amount of the indian casinos i can check out. And ill probally be playing the 2$ min table for a while to get used to it and all which is an 8 deck game.

Anyways anyone know a good count for shoe games, thinking of hi/lo but dont know why i think that. Dont really know any site with listing of the counts, checked out the one on gamemaster-online but it only lists 2 level 1 counts and not much else.

So any help is appreciated.

If you are playing 8 deck shoes the best level one count would be KO by Vancura and Fuchs(KO Blackjack). It is an unblanced system that eliminates the running count to true count coversion.

If you want to start with a flexible balanced system that you can add to as your game develops or if you plan to switch to single/double deck pitch games than I would recommend HiLo by Stanford Wong(Professional Blackjack). Both books are required for any Blackjack library and are available here at this sites catalog.

The different count systems are compared at Norm Wattenberger's site www.qfit.com.

I live in southern CA so have a good amount of the indian casinos i can check out. And ill probally be playing the 2$ min table for a while to get used to it and all which is an 8 deck game.

There aren't that many good games in the So Cal indian casinos. You're probably better off saving your money and playing in LV. In the meantime, practice playing, counting with a blackjack program. A decent shareware program can be downloaded from www.s-a-g-e.com. If you want the best, you can purchase it from www.qfit.com

Anyways anyone know a good count for shoe games, thinking of hi/lo but dont know why i think that. Dont really know any site with listing of the counts, checked out the one on gamemaster-online but it only lists 2 level 1 counts and not much else.

Once you master whatever count you choose (either HiLo or KO is more than adequate), you need to learn how to best play a shoe game. The key here is to avoid playing negative counts by backcounting and coming in at positive counts, by exiting when the count goes down, or both. I would recommend buying Blackjack Attack for details.

Also, a membership to greenchip is highly recommended. The archives are full of extremely useful information.

Casinos want us to count cards for the simple reason that card counting is not a threat to them. They know that card counting does not work in the short-term play.

In multiple-deck games, the closer you get to the end of the shoe, the more information you have about the remaining cards (the most information is known in the last two decks). If no cut card was used (i.e., 0% penetration) and the shoe were played to the end, the player would have a great advantage in this area of the shoe. The casinos know this and so after the shuffle, the dealer uses the cut card to �cut� at least the last two decks out of play. In certain AC casinos, the penetration is a whopping 50%. In essence, the cut card neutralizes the counter's greatest advantage.

Card counting cannot give the counter any information as to the distribution of the remaining cards. It is this lack of information that beats most card counters. The volatility of the true count is extremely high. for single and double-deck games.

There are times that the card counter is winning by counting cards, but so is the non-counter. There may also be times that card counting misses out on a winning streak. For example, if the true count hovers around 0, the counter bets table minimum. Meanwhile he and everyone at the table has won at least four hands in a row. The non-counters at the table have been pressing their bets, and continue to do so, hoping for the winning streak to continue. If the streak continues, every player makes a huge profit except one, the card counter. He continues to bet one chip and suffers extreme disappointment in the realization of having missed out by not having increased his bet during the series of consecutive winning bets.

Sometimes card counting can badly hurt the player. When the true count is +5 or more the counter bets his MAX bet of 12 units in the 6 decks shoe. If the dealer is on a winning streak and the true count continues to remain high, the player will continue to bet whatever the true count tells him to bet. He has faith that his counting system works and may ignore the current table trend. He will lose big!

Behind the cut card lies the greatest advantage for players. When good cards are cut out of play and the true count is very high, the counter bets accordingly. However if many high cards reside behind the cut card, this gives a false positive true count value. The counter continues his high bets and loses every hand.

Over the short run on a weekend you will win or lose about the same amount if you count or not.

Very little of what you wrote is accurate. I suggest you buy some of the books that are suggested on this site and become more familiar with advantage play.

"Casinos want us to count cards for the simple reason that card counting is not a threat to them. They know that card counting does not work in the short-term play."

This could not be further from the truth. If card coutning did not work in the short term, then it also could not work in the long term. The long term is simply an accumulation of short terms. Why do you think that most pros only stay for an hour at a time? If they stayed the whole weekend and played properly they would be 86'd at every casino.

Good luck,
kRis

Please read this over and over again:

There are times that the card counter is winning by counting cards, but so is the non-counter. There may also be times that card counting misses out on a winning streak. For example, if the true count hovers around 0, the counter bets table minimum. Meanwhile he and everyone at the table has won at least four hands in a row. The non-counters at the table have been pressing their bets, and continue to do so, hoping for the winning streak to continue. If the streak continues, every player makes a huge profit except one, the card counter. He continues to bet one chip and suffers extreme disappointment in the realization of having missed out by not having increased his bet during the series of consecutive winning bets.

Sometimes card counting can badly hurt the player. When the true count is +5 or more the counter bets his MAX bet of 12 units in the 6 decks shoe. If the dealer is on a winning streak and the true count continues to remain high, the player will continue to bet whatever the true count tells him to bet. He has faith that his counting system works and may ignore the current table trend. He will lose big!

Casinos want us to count cards for the simple reason that card counting is not a threat to them. They know that card counting does not work in the short-term play.

Casinos arguably care about the bottom line more than any other business. Casinos spend a lot of money on preventing CC's. That should say enough.

"He who says, 'It can't be done,' is REALLY saying, '*I* don't know how to do it.'

Granted, there are thousands of people who have bought and read the books and therefore have some knowledge of card counting. BUT, the vast majority of them do not win at it because they started as gamblers who learned how to count cards -- which means they're still gamblers.

Gambling and discipline are almost 100% antithetical: Highly disciplined people do not gamble, and gamblers are undisciplined.

Thus the combination of card counting plus the discipline necessary to make it work is extremely rare.

Going to your example, only a gambler would become discouraged after winning 4 hands in a row with only the minimum bet out. Personally, I'll take 4 wins in a row anytime, regardless of the bet size.

The disciplined counter knows the progression players will lose all his temporary gains back, and then some; just as he knows he himself is playing with an edge and with close to a mathematical certainty of coming out winner.

This is the difference: a true counter is NOT a "gambler." He is disciplined and that discipline includes the attribute of patience.

He does NOT demonstrate the impatience which is the essence of your post.

> The volatility of the true count is extremely high. for single and double-deck games.

Your statement above .. you make a true statement, about a good thing, and make it sound bad.

The fact is, it's the volatility that allows you to make the gains you do. Without volatility, there would be no reason to count.

Your entire post is this way.

Card counting, when done well, over the long run (and the long run is not as long as you think), is a profitable venture.

Please listen to kRis when he tells you this: Very little of what you wrote is accurate. I suggest you buy some of the books that are suggested on this site and become more familiar with advantage play.

While it is true that a counter will suffer his biggest losses when the count is high, he will also enjoy his biggest wins at those times which will exceed those losses.

You are mixing some valid concepts with the voodoo of streaks, and speaking as if you are an authority. This is extremely harmful to newcomers to the site who are seeking good information.

You seem to be dismissing counting cards as an effective indicator of when conditions are to the player's or dealer's advantage based on possible scenarios which certainly can and do occur. I'm only a beginner myself but to me the whole concept of counting is, as I stated above, an "indicator". This is not a fool proof method of winning every hand that is dealt as you pointed out, but by approaching the game with a combination of sound understanding of Basic Strategy and a counting system your scenarios you present become what they are - scenarios, not a true reflection of what will take place most often. Your willingness to dismiss counting based on these "scenarios" seems a demonstration of extreme black and white thinking.

I read it again and it is still mostly wrong. Perhaps you should seek help when editing your posts.

Seriously though, you have shown that you have very little understanding of the mathematics and statistics of the game. You base your post on what anyone can see at the table in a 30 min period. I have no intention of trying to educate you on the basics here. There are some very good books that would do a much better job.

I make my living through gaining statistical advantages in various ways. One of them is by playing blackjack.

This is a knowledgeable board. When the majority of the responses to your post say that you are a little wrong, then it is time to swallow your pride and admit to yourself that you really are wrong.

Good luck!
kRis

Please do not feed the troll.

you probably shouldn't offer advice until you learn more.

This is the difference: a true counter is NOT a "gambler." He is disciplined and that discipline includes the attribute of patience.

That, and the ability to act like a gambler so we don't look so disciplined!

Does anybody know what "Geschaeftsfuehrer" translates to?

Perhaps a casino manager?????

"administrative leader"