Backed Off in the South

So, I'm not that experienced a counter and just got backed off for the first time. It is totally my own fault. I was betting $10 minimum and then spreading at $25 * count for any count >=2. This was the third time I'd been to this casino in a couple of months and I have won a couple thousand each time in very extended playing sessions. Please try not to go off on me for the stupidity of this approach. I have never been backed off before and needed to see what it would take to get nailed. I got up and cashed out immediately without a fuss and headed to the next town over which I proceeded to hit for about $1,500 (pretty nice run of cards).

Anyway, they told me they would be sending my picture to the other three casinos in this town, so that I probably wouldn't be able to play there either. My question is, how true do you think this is? I mean, if I walk into another casino and don't give them a card or anything and play for an hour or an hour and a half, are they really going to check for my picture? Or do they really check every player's picture immediately against some databank of pictures? Hard to believe. This isn't exactly Bellagio I'm talking about. These are pretty small casinos here. I can't imagine they get many counters.

Well, you essentially say what town it was.

You didn't neccessarily do anything wrong at all. Perhaps you did. But the biggest mistake one can make is to assume that every backoff indicates that one's approach was wrong and that there should be some lesson to be learned. Good winning players get backed off. That's the way it is. As a group, those counters with few backoffs or none have won far less money than those with many backoffs. This is both short and long term. Work to strike a balance between a strong game and an adequate amount of cover that the less sophisticated casinos will allow you to play for a very long period. But don't give away the farm to avoid backoffs. And remember also, that among the sharp places you will be backed off for indications of advantage play regardless of result. But at less sophisitcated places it is mainly good luck that will get you backed off. This means that you get your actual win at places where you've been lucky but you earn the money griding out long hours at places where you have been less lucky.

Good luck in the future.

I'm sorry....even for a small casino 1500 is a drop in the bucket. If every casino backs off players for winning such a small amount of money, they would be bankrupt for lack of players. You say only 3 times in a couple months?! Something tells me that these casinos are not very well managed. I highly doubt your picture is even on file at their casino much less 3 others. Seriously, casinos get winners of 5000 or more on a daily basis, it is just hard to believe you got backed off for so little.

I don't think the back off had to do with the size of the win so much as the betting spread. $10 minimum to $250 maximum is a pretty good sized spread. Also I split tens twice and won both hands each time.

you'll make money at this game. Splitting tens is a more attention calling than most like. But overall you sound like a bold aggressive player and that's what it takes to make this worth your while. The flyer thing may actually happen but won't affect you long term. When a casino gets a flyer it tells them that the counter is in town making the rounds. They may put it in the top drawer in the pit or surveillance or even post it on a wall and watch for you to come in over the next few days so they can back you off. Just wait a couple of months before going back to that town and you'll probably be okay at the other casinos. After a year you'll usually be okay at the casino that actually backed you off.

This short string is the thing that makes lurking around over here valuable.

Excellent, short, concise, useable, real time, practical stuff.

Thanks for keeping on keeping on.

DD,

I find your messages very encouraging. I have been given to understand by others that you are a very knowledgeable and experienced player. I think I will exactly follow your advice and allow two or three months before I return to this town (whose name I am sure you know) and a year before I return to the casino in question.

From a technical standpoint, I definitely feel like I am a very solid player. But when it comes to managing heat, I really don't know the first thing. My point of view has always been "Until the first time someone says something to me, I am going to play my game and make money. I'll worry about heat once I see it." So now I've seen it a little and have to figure what I am going to do.

My plan is not to take any extreme cover measures that will really hit my expectation. I want to make a trip to Biloxi soon, maybe for ten days. I figure I will try not to play any particular shift in any particular casino for longer than an hour and a half, and will probably not spread quite as aggressivley (maybe $25 to $250 rather than table minimum to $250). And I'll try to watch carefully for attention from the pit and will get out if I see too much of it. If I still run into trouble, then I will take some additional steps.

Like you say, I don't want to throw away half my expectation based on paranoia. If I drop my expectation from, say, 2.1 units per hour to 1.3 units per hour, I will have to vastly increase my unit size to keep up, and I don't have the bankroll to support that (and then the heat will increase some anyway because of the size of the bets).

Thanks again for your input.