Anyone know if Vegas might do away with the human shuffle and start using auto shuffle machines?
I attempted a BJ game at an indian casino near San Diego that used the auto shuffle machines. TERRIBLE!!!!!!!! Will never play with a machine again. I sure hope Vegas doesn't jump on this wagon :(
Someone please tell me Vegas will NEVER go to those blasted auto shuffle machines!
I just returned from Vegas and saw quite a few of the auto shufflers, at first I mistook them for csm's ( they were 2 pits away from me ), and I could not believe how many of htese 'csm's' had appeared, however when leaving the casino I stopped to check them out and realised they were auto shufflers not csm's.
If the house you are playing at has good rules and you are feeling no heat surely auto shufflers will get you more hands per hour, perhaps we should be welcoming them, or is there something I am overlooking here ?
perhaps we should be welcoming them, or is there something I am overlooking here?
The casino has to weigh the reduced hourly win rate from excessive shuffling vs. loss to counters. But with auto shufflers, the casino can have games with bad pen, but not slow the games down since no time is lost to shuffling. Therefore, the incentive to offer games with good pen is reduced.
As far as I know, shuffle-tracking is impossible with an autoshuffler, so would be a pity to see that ability go by the wayside :(
Plus...I kinda enjoy being able to sit back and catch my breath for a minute or two while the dealer shuffles heheheheh. And as "innocent bystander" said, good penetration games would be a thing of the past.
Anyone know if Vegas is gonna make a full transition to auto-shufflers?
Do any of you think some manual shuffle games will be retained in Vegas as well as other casino's around the country, or will we eventually see a 100% transition to auto-shufflers?
Yes, rounds per hour is one gain that casinos gain form better penetration. But there are others.
Voodoo players do worse in poor penetration games. Voodoo players base a lot fo their tactics on whether or not the �shoe is good�. If is a �good� shoe, they will bump up their bets. If it is a poor shoe, they will play crazy so a to �change the flow of the cards.�
Many stores have the same cut with auto-shufflers as they would with hand-shuffles.
....was the same penetration on auto shufflers as the hand shuffled game.I don't think it makes sense for the casino to gain hands/hour witht these auto shufflers only to lose hands per hour by giving bad pen, but then when did the acts of the casinos ever make sense, anyone for single deck 6/5 ?? :)
Storm guy is right in that shuffle tracking is impossible, sadly this is a skill I lack and so I didn't think about it from my point of view, but I can certainly see that some people will be losing some edge.
including BS & hunch players, as it is not the good-old BJ anymore...
I have heard that it is possible to program an auto shuffler to determine and locate which cards are aces and faces, because of their black markings in the corners. Then the machine has the ability to place those cards in a totally mixed order, not leaving them in any large clusters or groups.
I never seem to notice any monster size counts with auto shufflers.
Is this possible?
The local casino hs been half auto shufflers and half hand shuffle for several years now. The pen. on either seems to depend only on the dealer - or maybe the supervisor. I play whichever has the best conditions, preferring the auto shuffler given a choice, for more hands per hour. High counts are not common in any 8-deck game, but I haven't noticed any difference between the two shuffle methods.
I play DD exclusively, and find I do measurably better against auto shufflers than against hand shuffled games. The auto shuffled game just seems to "behave" better -- i.e., closer to what it "should," and I seem to get fewer occurences of losing strings of hands at high counts.
Granted, this is limited, emperical data, and it may all be in my head, but I don't think so. It really seems to be more in my wallet than in my head.
As long as it's completely random where the cards can end up with clusters of big ones and little ones, it's fine with me.
Keep in mind that it is probably very easy to develop a shuffle machine that can arainge the big cards and all other cards to not ever pack into clusters, thereby not allowing for much skew above or below zero.
....that would be illegal. What if a dealer was able to look at the cards and decide what order they should go in. Maybe you could have the pit boss come over and decide that too many low cards got cut off. The casino would get shut down for "stacking the decks". No different than with a machine doing the same thing.
Keep in mind that it is probably very easy to develop a shuffle machine that can arainge the big cards and all other cards to not ever pack into clusters, thereby not allowing for much skew above or below zero.
Keeping the count close to zero means that even a slight positive count guarantees a backlash of tens and aces. People would notice this very quickly, and counters would have a field day. It would be very silly for them to stack the deck in this fashion. I'm sure there's better ways for them to cheat with shuffling machines.
ETF
How could a counter have a field day if the count never got very far into a possitive skew?
Very small positive counts would simply mean more. If you absolutely knew for sure the TC would never go above +2, a count of +1 would be worth at least 2%, as a rough guess, instead of 0.5%. The whole principle of card counting is when the running count goes up, you expect it to come down, giving you a surplus of tens and aces on the remaining rounds.
Unfortunately, I don't think the casinos will ever do this.
ETF
