Are you addicted?

Hi All,

Question again. I found Josh Axelrad's book "Repeat Until Rich" at my local library yesterday afternoon and finished reading it before going to bed. It got me thinking.

If you have read it, do you think that he is a "real" pro? How can any pro, after being so successful at blackjack, gave it all up and then pursued online poker and became addicted.

Any or all of you on this message forum gambling addict? Just the thought of join Gambling Anonymous scared the crab out of me.

If "real" means "paragon of psychological stability," you've eliminated most players ever to take down significant money for candidacy in that illustrious category.

In fact: worth nothing that there exists such a thing as positive-expectation compulsive gambling. I say this having seen it and smelled it. Online poker pros making real bank who are nonetheless letting their lives slip away. I'm talking about people who could have become something.

But didn't. And that is the story of them.

Just the thought of join Gambling Anonymous scared the crab out of me.

What on earth do you have to fear?

...a compulsive gambler and being an obsessed gambler. The medical world often considers them one and the same. I have known many people obsessed, that is "preoccupied", with gambling who I would not consider compulsive or "pathological" gamblers. However, I can't think of anyone who I would classify as a compulsive that was not, at the same time, preoccupied with "the gamble".

Admittedly a thin line, but it does exist.

Cobbson

has posted here in the past and with an offshoot of the MIT blackjack team called "The Greeks". If you were around in the late 1990's and early 2000's and saw them in action you would have thought that a 100 year swarm of locusts had just blown through destroying every blackjack game in their path.

What on earth do you have to fear?

ADDICTION!!! That is what I true fear. Addiction leads to destruction financially and family life.

Hi BP,

Does team success leads to self destruction? Is this the fate of most pros?

...and you should be aware of the signs of compulsive gambling and back away if you feel you are becomin addicted.

The nature of advantage play mitigates this somewhat in that it requires continual reassessment of playing patterns, style, bankroll, etc..., but a pathological gambler will rationalize his way out of the conclusions that are evident in that very analysis. He'll bet above his BR, he'll play too long, he'll risk too much, he'll chase losses - often with no regard to the consequences, until it's too late.

I've never been a compulsive gambler, but I used to "love BJ". I loved the casino environment - the sights and sounds - and I would sit for hours and play. Often in less than stellar games. I just loved the action. Now my goal is simple: get the money and get out. The love of the game has passed, and I am much more logical and efficient with my playing decisions. My BR is more stable and my backoffs are fewer.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

...I sense a problem in the making. Be honest. Nobody but you will see your answers.

Cobbson

Doc,

Would you clarify the term "chasing losses" for me?

Bjay,

I do have self doubt sometimes. I don't truly know myself yet: I haven't found out who "I Am". However,for now, if I don't feel I have a chance to win, I don't want to play. I play blackjack these day because those books that I have been reading told me that I have the "advantage". There is no point to giving away hard earn money. But, that is for now. There is still a possibility that I might turn into one of those degenerate gamblers. Life would be really sucks that way.

refers to "trying to get even", throwing all caution to the wind. Usually the person will increase bet size in desperation. Not good.

If there's any doubt in your mind, forget about gambling until you grow up enough to be 100% sure you will never become addicted.

You should HATE the game of blackjack. One of the stupidest games ever invented.

You should HATE casinos. They are a legal stupid tax, made for stripping the least intelligent, least educated of every last nickel.

You should HATE the action. You want action, watch a Bruce Willis movie.

Most of all you should HATE the gambling. Luck, aka "variance," is the ENEMY of an advantage player. You want the gamble REDUCED, preferably to zero if possible.

Once upon a time, back when $1 or $2 tables were plentiful, I could respect the recreational blackjack player. It wasn't my cup of tea, but I could understand it. But that's a forgotten era, at least in my neck of the woods. Nowadays, the only thing to like is making money. If you're having fun, you're doing it wrong.

There is no scientific evidence that Gambler's Anonymous or any X Anonymous is of any help with an addiction. In particular, it has been shown that AA is only 5% successful, which is the same as people trying to quit on their own.

I personally feel that any such process which begins with step 1 stating that you are not in control is a bunch of crap.

I've posted this before: Panama Rick's 1 Step Program: YOU ARE IN CONTROL. Keep repeating this, especially when you feel you aren't. The power it gives you is incredible.

The most important qualities of an AP are discipline and patience. You must wait patiently until an advantage situation arises before you put down your big bet. And even after losing some big bets you have to return to minimum as soon as the advantage has gone. If you cannot do that neither card counting nor any other advantage technique will help you.

Francis Salmon

The most important qualities of an AP are discipline and patience.

Good point: winning at blackjack requires absolute steadiness. Where I quibble is the idea that only very stable people undertake to develop that steadiness. Just look at all the posts on these boards: scores of really gifted, interesting folks devoting huge intellectual resources (and lots of time) to an activity worth far less than most of them could earn in the straight world, doing legitimate work for the benefit of the species.

You have to be cracked to want do this. Have to be. Meaning, I think, that successful card counters are more rather than less likely to develop pathological relationships to certain forms of gambling. Not necessarily to blackjack.

And surely you can be a pathological gambler in some areas but steady in others. Ask Harold Smith, Sr. Or just tell Stu Ungar how he never had a shot at success in poker, because of his gambling addiction.

My statement concerned Blackjack. I think the folks on this site are not lunatics but very rational people who understand the concept of ev.Most of them would never place a bet unless they have the advantage and that's why they would never play roulette or craps.
The only alternative is Poker but this game is more psychological than mathematical and the advantage is difficult to assess.
By the way, I am not sure that I would win more in a normal profession and above all I wouldn't be free.

Francis Salmon

I answered the following 5 questions yes. 7 appears to be the cut-off so I guess I am safe.

Did you ever lose time from work due to gambling (I took a vacation day for a 3 day Reno trip back in 2009. I could have worked instead).

Has gambling ever made your home life unhappy (wife was a bit upset that I took that last trip to Vegas instead of staying home with her and the kids).

Were you reluctant to use "gambling money" for normal expenditures (I keep a dedicated BJ bankroll)

Did gambling cause you to have difficulty in sleeping (how else are you supposed to get in a decent amount of hours during a weekend trip to Vegas)