Any other professionals??

Where are all the professional black jack players???

I have been playing black jack for 5 years now. I have read most major publications on black jack and getting the edge from the casino.
I have visted and played in over 30 casinos. (3 times weekly) I have a good knowledge of the game and use a very basic card counting technique. Im well disciplined when it comes to money management & bankroll. I play only with superior gaming conditions( I have been known to drive 5 hours and turn around because of bad conditions). I keep a journal & log of wins/loss. ,,,,Over all Im beating the casino...My only quarell is with other professional black jack players. Heres my list:

1. Are there any professional meetings for black jack players?
2. Are there any phone directories or on-line chatting for our fellow gamblers?
3. Are there situation were a newcommer can sit in with professional to see how the game is executed?
4. Are there such cases of gamblers teaming up against the casino's,,and if so how would i get this information.

It just seems like all the pro's are in the shadow--------

Any advice on this matter would be much appriciated..

Thank a lot guys

chetpalyer,,,,Hartford,CT

More or less even card counters. I've been hitting tables all over the country for years and very, very, seldom spot a card counter,much less a pro.

This(and other bj sites) is suppose to be the message board where card counters meet. Unfortunately, since internet message boards are easliy accessed by anyone...most who visit them are not serious card counters. I'll leave the rest to your imagination of who all these visitors may be.

In the earlier days serious card counters would gather and talk about certain strategies and tactics they use,needless to say the trolls have ran them away.

pro players exist in the netherreaches of the blackjack underground...they are hard to find and shy about meeting other people. Obviously there is a cost/benefit ratio to meeting other players.

Here are the answers to your questions...

1. Meetings for BJ players exist...there are Green Chip parties, Rat Pack Dinners, Max Rubin's NY Eve party, and other more secret gatherings. You generally have to know a few other players to get allowed to go or get invited.

2. On line chats take place several places...Tuesday nights at 7pm (vegas time) is just one. There is another chat, on Sunday I think, on the advantageplayer website.

3. Regarding straight counting, there is nothing about it that you cannot learn by reading all the various books. Get Professional Blackjack by Stanford Wong and Blackjack Attack by Don Schlesinger and you've got a good foundation. Check the Bibliography of those books and read everything else you can, also subscribe to "Blackjack Forum". Read every post on every website. Ask questions. Join Green Chip and read the archives.

4. Yes, there are organized teams of players and unless you know someone you'll never get to play on one until you've built up a very strong track record of winning on an individual level and develop references with known players for trustworthyness.

There are many casinos in the States where BJ playing conditions are poor. Pros may make more from other countries' smaller but more profitable condition. I played 5 countries* this year seeing over 20 pros playing. Of course you need to define "pros" which I mean people who make more from BJ playing than their other professions. You can be winning most from bj but only $10,000 a year which is a poor pro though. The pros I see most make more than $40,000 a year. Look for pros? Go to casinos with positive ev off-the-top.
*Country A: 4D, 75% pen

B: 0.7% positive ev off-the-top

C: 1% positive ev off-the-top

D: 0.5% rebate on actions

E: LV, AC, and Foxwood - I lost there

If you think see pros everyday they must be in another part of the world. Truth is, not many exist.

Approaches tend to come via e-mail to posters who have established expertise in a given area. Invitations to teams almost never take place on public or private forums but only after a protracted correspondence. Even then, it is painfully easy to recruit a casino detective or give away valuable intelligence.

Re-read your post again as if you were a (wisely) paranoid big player. It might send off warning bells. I'm sure you didn't mean it too but thats a how a lot of players think.

I travel overseas quite a bit as part of my job. You can e-mail me at libanus@aol.com. I will keep it confidential. I doubt I will ruin the game as I seldom travel more than once a year to any given country. I can also privately share with you some of the good games I found overseas, if you can send me your e-mail.
Thanks

There are obvious reasons why a professional BJ-player wouldn't seek the lime light:
1.In order to avoid barrings or drastic counter measures he has to keep his real identy secret. This is even more true for European players where identy checks are compulsory (exception:Monte Carlo),so any coming out must take place under a phony name.
2.Sharing general opininons is fine and this can take place on a public board like this one but when it comes to specific locations, the exchange of information is much more timid and very understandably so: Who wants to share a goldmine with the crowd?
3.Teams are fine for players with a limited bankroll but even there team members should operate individually. The danger of being unvailed as a counter is manyfold if somebody else at the table increases the stake in lockstep.
4. Staying in the dark is also a good way to avoid trouble with the fiscal authorities.

Francis Salmon

Posting such questions in a forum such as this would immediately make any pro skeptical to your professional status. Pros on these pages do nothing other than answer simple beginner questions. You have likely seen many pros on your travels. Lots of guys who look like stupid fish, who walk up, lose several thousand, and walk out are serious pros.

If you go to any gaming tournament with a prize larger than a few thousand there will be many pros there. They will not identify themselves to you. If you go to any high end invitational tournament there will be pro players who have wormed their way into the graces of high stakes ploppies. If you participate in pay areas, such as greenchip, you will not be among pros for the most part, but you will be among a more serious class of amatures, many of whom will be aquainted with pro and semi-pro players. They may help you get known among a higher circle.

I know that I would never meet someone who has not been well known as a serious player by lots of people who I know and trust for at least a couple of years. This is not for fear of spies, but for fear of wannabes who use poor judgement and expose all around them to various dangers.