Any ideas or any thoughts?

Productivity is a good thing to have on one's mind when planning to acquire skills and knowledge in any endeavor. Acquiring comprehensive knowledge and skills in bj is no exception.

Deliberate thinking and planning in the most efficient manner of one's own resources (energy) can lead one in directions where returns are of higher magnitude and importance. It makes sense to first learn and understand those areas that would be most important to master important knowledge and skills than be absorbed in areas of lesser importance or of only peripheral value. Has anybody done work in this area? How about relative importance of those parts that make the whole?

Has anybody thought or knows resources that give a breakdown of what one needs to learn and what are the priorities when it comes to the game of bj? Any priority list not only what is related with the game but also all that it entails- managing the whole endeavor by becoming a completely skilled and knowledgeable player?

What are those skills comprized of in order of importance? Is there a way of measuring those skills or lack of them in certain areas that may or not be essential in playing a winning game?

Any ideas or any thoughts?

Speed drills with a computer program is probably best for gaining speed. A very minimal speed of 30 seconds per deck should be attained.

This is one small thought for someone just learning. A greater problem than actually countint is remembering the count during breaks in the action. I'm not sure how to train for this. Perhaps just counting a few decks with breaks after ever quarter to half deck. Count a few, then get something to drink, pick up and count some more, watch TV for a few minutes, then continue, etc. Work on being able to keep the count during interuptions.

Estimating the true count can also be a problem. The best training method is probably the one Uston describes. You tape together several packs of cards that differ by a half deck and learn to identify them.

For knowledge, buy and read books. Run simulations and experiment with different things. Discuss your observations and questions with others on the internet.

I don't know the order of importance. It is possible to win at blackjack by simply being a robot, following directions, and not understanding anything. But in most cases this doesn't work for long because the robot begins to think, and in doing so thinks up lots of incorrect theories about how the game should be played. Best is to discuss things you think up. If you think the ideas sound too dumb and are embarrassed, then post the dumb question under a different alias.

I think that most important, after you have aquired the basic skills of counting and are sufficiently proficient to play in a casino, is understanding what kind of bet spread is needed to have a reasonable advantage at the type of game you plan to play.

From my own personal experience, and assuming that you are interested in playing blackjack to make money, this is my list of essentials to turn a card game into cold cash.

1.Learn how the game is played. Two cards for you, for dealer, etc.

2.Learn Basic Strategy, and it's minor differences between single and multi deck games. When you are making ZERO mistakes:

3.Sign up with a reputable onLine casino that will match your deposits with bonus cash. Continue to play perfect Basic at the lowest table limits. At this point you will begin making money playing BJ. Continue to do so during your spare time, if you have any of that...grin Use this money to create a bankroll if you do not have one set aside.

4.Begin to count cards. I suggest the High Low as shown in Stanford Wong�s book Professional Blackjack. Practice until you can count the deck down in around 20 seconds, pulling groups of cards off in bunches, not just one at a time. Learn true count etc.

5.Get some real casino experience. Find a casino that will allow you to play $5 hands. Take $100 with you and play for an hour. Count while you play, but don't use it to bet with, unless you are playing a single deck game. Max bet $10. Go home.

6.Begin to learn the main play departures, often called the Illustrious 18. I call them "The Terrible Twenty" in my book Aces and Faces Blackjack. Once you have these down, you are ready for professional play.

7.IF you can get at single and double deck games, begin to play them with your present bankroll, which should be growing with onLine casino bonuses, pay check cash, & garage sales.....grin

8.Multideck players need more tools to keep in the game. Again, learn how to "Wong" in, as it is described in ProBJ by Wong himself.

9.Learn to shuffle track. Learn how to sequence Aces through the shuffle. Learn how to play other players hands with them when they won't double and split because of high table limits.

It's a full scale attack, not just onLand, but onLine. It will change your life. How? Simply by increasing your income. It will give you the freedom to be able to relax when an unexpected bill pops up, or buy you that fishing boat your wife would never allow you to with the money set aside for your children�s education! grin

My 22 cents worth

I recommend "Blackjack Your Way to Riches" by Canfield. This book primarily concentrates on single deck, with a little about DD. I suggest learning basic strategy cold, sticking with one game (SD), and one type of count (hi-lo) until you can do it in your sleep. It becomes like riding a bicycle after a while.

Next, add the TRUE COUNT refinement to your arsenal.

Third, add a side count of aces. Remember, my suggestion is that you stick with single deck, DD in a pinch. Can't find good penetration at one casino, try another dealer, another shift or go to another casino.

DO NOT PLAY WITH MORE THAN 2 OTHER PLAYERS!

After a couple of years of winning this way (which I have) you can then move on to the next level - HI OPT II. This one is tough, I am still trying to learn.

I personally would NEVER play online, just don't trust it.

Now, all of this goes without saying - you MUST have an adequate bankroll! Suggested BR in the above-mentioned book might be a bit low, but certainly got me started, and I made money from it. This is like a part-time job for me, a little extra $$$ is always nice! Good luck and good cards to you!

I agree that this is a very good book, with two major and serious exceptions. It is very well written, well organized and explains concepts very well. I played the expert system it provides with success for a few years before switching to another system. I would suggest learning high low instead. I don't have the book with me as I write this, so I can't be exact on my disagreements.

The exceptions:

The bankroll requirements are incorrect, and are actually far, far, higher than indicated. Your risk of going broke following the money management suggestions is very high.

It does not recognize the size and strength of variation, implying that in just a few hours you can determine the win rate of a system. Total nonsense.

It touts a "Master System" as being the best of all systems. It is a good system, but it's just another good system, and if I remember right, it is a 3 level. Ugh.

Good luck and enjoy the book and most of its advice.

Canfiled had some early double ruin mirror effect information directly from Packel, who was the first to examine the mirror effect, as applied to blackjack (Einstein was the first, but not for blackjack, in his Nobel Prise winning paper on the kinetic theory of gasses and the Brownian movement) in his 1981 edition of The Mathematics of Gambling. Canfield thus missinterpreted the optimal bankroll as being the same as a bankroll with a 27% risk of ruin with a fixed betting scheme, but instead of considering this along with a trip ruin type formula for initially playing a bankroll that only met the lowest minimum bet requirements, and having only endpoint ruin estimates....well the result was that his bankroll requirements listed were only 1/2 of those for a normal optimal estimate done today. If you had the criteria that you would never drop your intial unit size and had one of the applicable formulas for trip ruin, he might have even gotten this correct.

The Master count sold originally for $495 and I bought it, back in 1979. Its values are the same as Bryce Carlson's AOII count. I met one of the people mentioned, and Grinder, of the well known simulations archive site, might be the same as the Grinder in the Blackjack Your Way to Riches (I suspect he might; I just met Party).

I just wanted to correct some myths about the Canfield errors. He might post on this himself!

Based on his missinterpreting information from Packel, that without this error would be considered quite advanced. My other post just explains why his estimates are too low. Take this as a shorter version of my other post.

From Rob

Continue to play perfect Basic Strategy at the lowest table limits. At this point you will begin making money playing BJ.

Myself

That is not true...If it is a one deck shoe, your expected value is to break even; two decks or more,---you will lose...It is not until you start counting cards that you can build a winning edge for yourself.

Refusing to play in a game with bad penetration is vital...Also, knowing the perils of standard deviation is essential also...Remember the best you can hope to do is win by 1%...That means that out of 200 wagers, you will win 101 and lose 99...You could easily win 80 and lose 120 out of the next 200 wagers and you must have a sufficient bankroll to ride out these unending storms.

If you are doing it all correctly, eventually you will experience the 101 to 99 win ratio...Ninety percent or more of the people who fail as card counters, do so because they fail to realize the importance of the ideas listed above.

>Sign up with a reputable onLine casino that will match your deposits >with bonus cash. Continue to play perfect Basic at the lowest table >limits. At this point you will begin making money playing BJ. >Continue to do so during your spare time, if you have any of >that...grin Use this money to create a bankroll if you do not have >one set aside.

I believe that Rob's comment on making money while playing perfect basic strategy only refers to bonus hunting at online casinos.

"Remember the best you can hope to do is win by 1%...That means that out of 200 wagers, you will win 101 and lose 99..."

Actually, you're going to lose more wagers than you win.

Hopefully you will have more money riding on the ones you win, and come out ahead.

But you knew that. :-)

"I believe that Rob's comment on making money while playing perfect basic strategy only refers to bonus hunting at online casinos."

Yes, this is when you can start making $ with the lowest possible skill level. You can experience a return on investment of 100% range right off the bat. All of the rest of the 101/99 comes afterwards.

Comparing the classic betting (increasing the bet after a win / decreasing the bet after a loss)and the one based on TC ,I`ve made my own betting strategy wich it looks like this:
Bet 2 units at RC>=0
Bet 1 unit at RC<0
Bet 4 units at TC=1
Bet 6 units at TC>2
Increase bet after a win with 1 unit no more then 4 times at RC>0
Increase bet after a win with 1 unit no more then 3 times at TC>-1
and RC<0
Decrease bet after a loss down to initial bet
Flat bet at TC <-1
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So far I can say that is already working and I`ve been paid for it .
If anyone has comments or wants to rate it or to test it on a simulator is free to give a reply.
Anyway,all the system is based on probabilistics and logic and can be easyly explained.

George I.

I agree Parker, I guess I didn't want to go into too much detail and make my submission far too long...If you look at your minimum wager as one unit than my 101 to 99 wins [or units] applies...As you said, you will lose more games than you win, but when you have the most money on the table, you can expect to win enough to make the 101 to 99 unit scenario come true.

Learn to scout before you sit down to play seriously. Know what makes a good game like rules, penetration, number of players at single deck or DD. Then visit all the casinos in the area and just observe. You can play sparingly like if you are observing the penetration on multideck and see a +2 bet the table minimum the rest of the deck or if you see a DD game where 75 cards or so are being dealt before the cut card, sit down for a while and bet the minimum with a two spread but the idea is to look at everything. Make notes in a bathroom stall. Then try to evaluate each casino and each game.

What you are accomplishing is to make evaluation a habit and to teach yourself you do not have to sit down just because you are in a casino. You will have learned the lesson when you can go to three or four casinos and never play a hand at all because a decent game is not there or, at the least, learn to drop your stakes and just play for fun.

The skill of having the self discipline to not sit down is probably as important as any other skill IMHO.

This is a way of putting a progression within the limits of the count. By taking the swings out of the game, you decrease your over all Kelly edge. What I have found is that a system like this will keep new counters in the game, giving them more experience, instead of a giant swing into the negative which will often wipe out part of the counters bankroll, and all of his/her confidence. A nice little system as well I might add. I gave it a name too....grin

Good Work!

and probably is only worthwhile in single or double deck games. Better for a newbie, bet close to optimal but use smaller units...this reduces the swings but still gets you the ev you deserve percentage-wise.

bp

At 200 "wagers", you will not be at "101 to 99"... just being a smart ass ;-)

...Using a psuedoProgression may be good cover when used by a pro -but- it reduces your advantage and increases your variance (ie, risk). G

I don`t know why this strategy would decrease the edge,but I think that:
1.Increasing the bet after a winning hand in not a such positive count
is good because you can waste the rows of big cards with a small
bet;
2.After a few winning hands in this time can cover the expected loses
from the incoming negative count;
3.I use to make shuffle tracking and in this case is recomandable to
bet like this;
4.This strategy decreases the posibility of being detected as a card
counter.